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Re: [Killietalk] Can't have your cake and eat it too
Glad you didn't take that the wrong way...
Matter of fact I'd just assume none of us take any of these post all that
seriously, all of it is bull more or less (I'd rather my post just get
deleted than cause any real hub-bub)
Barry, nobody here gets "real" around here:
if you really read my post, it may sound like I take myself seriously, but
in fact it's the opposite...I can say what I say w/o regard because none of
this junk really matters...it's about flippin "tropical fish", and of no
real importance compared to things that really matter like booze & sex...
...instead a lot of innuendo gets bantered about here...mostly to avoid
scaring the thin skinned "content readers" away (the ones that want to
"intake" fish info only and never offer up anything anyway)
Thing is, you guys bring in fish and I don't see em, well at least not until
their "value" goes down when they become common...so "lets be real":
...the jest of the "innuendo" being: the fish go to people you know or never
make it out of the left coast (or so it seems on the surface)...whether that
claim is true or even a valid b*tch (since they are your fish), the
distribution mechanism that we get is hardly "efficient" (for whatever
reasons or real hurdles that exist)
So what I (and others) really want/bitch about is a shot at these fish while
they are "hot/rare" (and no doubt displace some less "worthy" fish from our
fish rooms)
...and this is the sad cycle we are in, let's all be honest: many of us are
part hobbyist/part consumer: rarity is appealing, who wants, or has 100
tanks of gardneri and golden wonders?
...So the "value" of these fish is 1 part aesthetic, 2 parts "shelf life", 3
parts quantity/availability...and all based on a "collection code"; that is
as I've pointed out: of no reliable "genetic" value (at least not by the
time these rare fish are available to the avg. non-convention go'er like
myself)
And no, it doesn't sound plausible for you to lie about giving away your
nothos, but IMO, you and the rest of us might be better served if folks
"earned" these new imports by contributing with some sweat equity (in lieu
of cash)...it would definitely be a more visible means of distribution, and
IMO a reasonable risk (at least the new breeders would earn the fish)...
I'm not suggesting we take away any/all incentive for conventions, but I am
suggesting a fish "earned" as a reward for contributing is worth more than a
fish sold to the highest bidder...I'm also suggesting this is a club, and a
team effort is more appreciated than anything you or anyone else does
individually...
...and don't worry about "non-fish" talk scaring away readers, those looking
for fish info only are probably waiting for your next "hand out" anyway for
their $25
...speaking of doing what we want with our fish...ever try rachovii on
pizza?...taste just like anchovies :-)
KC
-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces+ken_combs=sbcglobal.net at aka.org
[mailto:killietalk-bounces+ken_combs=sbcglobal.net at aka.org] On Behalf Of
Barry Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:29 PM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Can't have your cake and eat it too
Ken,
I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I'll pick out a couple of
things. First, yes, they are my fish to do with what I want. What I
want, besides my personal enjoyment of keeping them, is to distribute
them in the hobby. I choose to do that by donating them to local
auctions and to other shows that I attend, including the convention.
Further distribution becomes the responsibility of those who buy them.
Incidentally I almost always donate rather than taking a split.
Let me give and example: How many people out there have or have had N.
eggersi Kilimani TAN 02-15? Well, I know that fish is very widespread in
the hobby. We collected it and we distributed it initially in the way we
usually do. Because those who got it also distributed it, it is widely
available. This is only one example of many that I could give.
It seems to me that the issue often is that people want fish while they
are rare and have less interest once they become viewed as common.
Indeed, this view is one of the reasons that fish are lost from the hobby.
Second, I think your idea of bribery, not to put too nice a word on it,
in order to entice people to participate in AKA-related tasks is
unworkable. Such a volunteer is no longer a volunteer. I wonder how long
they'd stay committed once they have the desired fish? I prefer to
recruit people who volunteer for more altruistic reasons, but that's
just me.
Barry Cooper
Barry J. Cooper
Sweet Home, OR 97386
Ken wrote:
> Gheez, I'm gonna have to get a new "soap box", this one next to my
computer
> is wearing out...anyway, I read this from Barry:
>
> "N. rubroreticularis eggs. Although I am not one of those referred to by
> Brian Watters, I do have that fish and have been successful with it. I
have
> distributed some locally."
>
> Hmmmm, then I read this: "I have been swamped by other AKA-related tasks
and
> haven't got to this yet."
>
> ...You've been swamped with work? AND you have N.rubroreticularis?
>
> Barry, this post is not directed "exactly" towards you (or to embarrass
> you), it sort of a general "soap box moment" for the list.
>
> Basically, most of us "dues paying members" sit around and beat up on
those
> who haven't delivered FOR FREE as promised...I make no pretenses about the
> human race or myself...just look at the percentage of dues paying members
> that contribute time for free vs. those that expect a ROI for the $25
> bucks...
>
> Ever heard of delegating? Or "bribery" or "barter", Look, if it were me,
> instead of dragging out projects over 10yrs, I'd shamelessly and
tactlessly
> use my high value fish as "incentive" to get some friggin stuff done...
> OR (and just as likely)...I'd sell the damn things to the highest bidder,
> get some ROI and the hell what anyone thought...
>
> ....Either way, I wouldn't infer I'm contributing fish to the hobby, but
> then say "I do what I want with them"...
>
> Just suggesting we can have it both ways and not expect someone not to
call
> in to question the true charitable value of these privately collected
> fish...Just saying not everyone is going to realize the small ROI you end
up
> getting from these fish by contributing to conventions or distributing to
> "competent breeders" or whatever...
>
> BTW, nobody's calling into question the work or contributions you give
> (freely w/o bias)...but if the fish you personally collect truly fall into
> the "contributory" category, then I say the heck with the "higher
> ground/true volunteerism" thing, and go ahead use those fish as man-hour
> barter and shamelessly "bait" people to contribute... certainly doing so
> would be a more direct, efficient and visible means of turning your money
> and your fish into man-hours...
>
> Alternatively, I say again: If they are "your" fish, turn em into cash and
> be done with it OR if they are "contribution", turn the fish into labor
and
> stop all the accusations (true: "open contributions" are semi-tacky, but
> your contributions are already highly visible)...
>
> ...right now your "privately collected fish" are a sorted mix of two
worlds:
> your personal property (to do with what you want), yet a contributory
> "demand" from the hobby for which you receive "some" credit (and little
> money)...We got no right to bitch about someone else's property, we do
have
> a right to bitch about said property if it is spun as a contribution (of
> sorts)...personally I wouldn't mix the two
>
> KC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org] On
> Behalf Of Barry Cooper
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:11 AM
> To: killifish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] KCC Newsletter
>
> I will be putting the Newsletter on the AKA site soon. I have been
> swamped by other AKA-related tasks and haven't got to this yet.
>
> BC
>
> Barry J. Cooper
> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>
>
>
> Charlie wrote:
>
>> Hi All:
>>
>> The latest newsletter of the Killifish Conservation Committee is
available
>>
> upon request, in PDF format.
>
>> This newsletter updates the actions of the committee and the status of
the
>>
> KCC designated species.
>
>> A copy of the KCC manual is also availabe upon request, in PDFD format.
>>
>> If you are interested in joining one of our breeder teams, contact me
>>
> off-list for further information.
>
>> The current list of KCC designated species include:
>>
>> Aphyosemion elberti N'Tui
>>
>> Fundulopanchax oeseri
>>
>>
>> Fundulopanchax walkeri GH2/74 Kutunze
>>
>>
>> Funbdulopanchax gardneri Misaje
>> Simpsonichthys marginatus
>>
>> Ep. huberi
>>
>> Ep. Species Massana
>>
>> Ep. sexfasciatus Sp. "Elon"
>>
>> Archiaphyosemion petersi Banco Park
>>
>> Scriptaphyosemion liberiense
>>
>> Scriptaphyosemion etzeli Yek Bir
>>
>> Plataplochilus ngaensis:
>>
>>
>>
>> Charlie Nunziata
>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
>> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
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>>
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>>
>>
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>
> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
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>
>
>
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