Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk Digest, Vol 52, RO issues

["apistomaster at excite_com" <apistomaster at excite_com>]

I agree with Wright about an all around range of 60 to 100 ppm TDS is a very practical range to work with.

The exceptions for me are mainly some SA Cichlids like Altum Angels, Heckel Discus, Dicrossus spec and some similar 'difficult" species

I could list, including Neons, Cardinals, Rummy Nose tetras and Pencil fish to these fish needing ultra low TDS for good egg development. 

Killies are more tolerant of dissolved minerals. Heckel Discus and Altum Angels thrive at a pH of 3.5 and >20 ppm TDS. That would pickle any killies I've kept.

I'll have to try some extra KCl to see if that assists the Java Moss placed in extremely soft acid water. Just might help.

Larry Waybright 



 ------------------------------Message: 5Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:06:16 -0500From: Tom Payne <paynedds at earthlink_net>Subject: [Killietalk] Temps and ROTo: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>My fishroom is in our basement and is also where the furnace and hot water heater are placed. When I set the room up, we put in a bathroom exhaust fan and a separate ducted-in fresh air (outside)source for humidity control. It had been on a switch and I used it intermittently at first and then hardly at all once I determined that condensation in the attic wasn't a problem in winter months. I didn't use it at all in the summer. I'd more or less written the trouble we went to off as a lesson in overkill. Monitoring the temperature swings in the room with a max/min thermometer, I noticed it wasn't unusual in the winter to see large swings from near 80 down to the mid 60's. The warmer readings were more prevalent in winter due to the heat from the gas-fired heaters, so I searched 
 
for a thermostat that I could control the exhaust fan with to bring in outside cool air and found this one http://www.kkontrols.com/poth8ftco.html to try. I re-wired the switch to an outlet and hooked the thermostat to the fan and set it at 72 degrees. Now the temp swings only between 70 and 73 degrees! That little thermostat's a nice unit and can be used for heating or cooling applications by moving one wire.I also have acquired an RO unit, a used Barracuda system which was half the price of new and only used slightly. Now I have 4-5 ppm water (used to be ~200ppm) and have been slowly lowering the conductivity of the water in my flow through system with water changes. I'm wondering how low to go, as well as how fast to lower the conductivity when I start to adjust my non-flow-thru tanks.Before I got the RO unit, I bypassed the water softener for the water changes. Now, I have the opportunity to raise the input water temperature by mixing in hot water to improve the RO 
transfer rate, but that means not by-passing the softener. So, I'm open for suggestions about the most sensible way to change water conditions and control pH variations as well. Any advice about the most reliable source of watter parameters by species would also be appreciated.Hope everyone had thankful holidays!-- Tom Payne10100 Hoover Woods Rd.Galena, Ohio 43021740-965-9311"Christ died for men precisely because men are not worth dying for; to make them worth it."				-C.S. Lewis, "The World's Last Night"------------------------------Message: 6Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:50:44 -0800From: Wright Huntley <whuntley at verizon_net>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Temps and ROTo: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>Hi Tom,Based on simple observation (no science involved) I like the water I now have at about 100 ppm. 60 ppm of hardness.That is low enough for any of my rain forest fishes, and not too low for most of the others. It is buffered enough to prevent pH crash, but still 
allows eggs of soft-water species to develop properly.Maybe I'll want to do some changes, after a while, but this is what I used to use RO additions to my tap water to achieve in Fremont, so I'm happy for now with it.I bought an RO unit from Ron Harlan, but strictly for my drinking water. I have slightly high fluoride and consider it a serious Alzheimer's threat. [I'm too old for it to stain my teeth.]My memory is my second-shortest thing, so it may have been a big waste of money. :-DI just ordered a greenhouse, so will take your thermostatically-controlled fan advice to heart. It sounds like the only way to go.My rule on how much instant tds (conductivity) change is OK is that a factor of two is pretty safe when lowering (e.g., from 200 ppm to 100 ppm), and much more than that when raising it. Guppies jump from fresh to salt water and apparently suffer no permanent damage. Going the other way seems to do permanent gill damage, tho. Small fish seem to acclimate to large 
changes in only 15-30 minutes, but big salmon take a whole day before swimming upstream. YMMV, but I have never killed fish using this rule of thumb.The added sodium from your water softener is pretty safe if your water has enough potassium to balance it. If not, expect it to kill your plants. You can buy "No Salt" salt substitute (KCl) at the grocery store if you feel you need to add any. Just watch for a couple of weeks and add a tiny bit of potassium only if your Java Moss starts to turn brown.WrightTom Payne wrote:> My fishroom is in our basement and is also where the furnace and hot > water heater are placed. When I set the room up, we put in a bathroom > exhaust fan and a separate ducted-in fresh air (outside)source for > humidity control. It had been on a switch and I used it intermittently > at first and then hardly at all once I determined that condensation in > the attic wasn't a problem in winter months. I didn't use it at all in > the summer. I'd more or less 
written the trouble we went to off as a > lesson in overkill. Monitoring the temperature swings in the room with a > max/min thermometer, I noticed it wasn't unusual in the winter to see > large swings from near 80 down to the mid 60's. The warmer readings were > more prevalent in winter due to the heat from the gas-fired heaters, so > I searched for a thermostat that I could control the exhaust fan with to > bring in outside cool air and found this one > http://www.kkontrols.com/poth8ftco.html to try. I re-wired the switch to > an outlet and hooked the thermostat to the fan and set it at 72 degrees. > Now the temp swings only between 70 and 73 degrees! That little > thermostat's a nice unit and can be used for heating or cooling > applications by moving one wire.>> I also have acquired an RO unit, a used Barracuda system which was half > the price of new and only used slightly. Now I have 4-5 ppm water (used > to be ~200ppm) and have been slowly lowering the conductivity of 
 
the > water in my flow through system with water changes. I'm wondering how > low to go, as well as how fast to lower the conductivity when I start to > adjust my non-flow-thru tanks.>> Before I got the RO unit, I bypassed the water softener for the water > changes. Now, I have the opportunity to raise the input water > temperature by mixing in hot water to improve the RO transfer rate, but > that means not by-passing the softener. So, I'm open for suggestions > about the most sensible way to change water conditions and control pH > variations as well. Any advice about the most reliable source of watter > parameters by species would also be appreciated.>> Hope everyone had thankful holidays!>>>   -- Wright Huntley - 805 Valley West Cir., Bishop CA 93514 whuntley at verizon_net 760 872-3995. Cell 760 937-2276------------------------------To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/Modify your 
subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalkEnd of Killietalk Digest, Vol 52, Issue 43******************************************

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