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Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
Hi John,
Killies are different from other fishes.
They have evolved to take advantage of ephemeral habitats. The eggs take 2
weeks or longer to hatch and the fry are usually fully self-sufficient upon
hatching. The eggs of most species are resistant to dessication to some
extent.
It is likely that many killie populations are already highly inbred in the
wild, and most lethal mutations have already been bred out of the
population. I rarely have to cull killie fry due to deformities. Consider
each pool or stream to be its own little genetic experiment.
Cichlids tend to have populations spread out over larger areas. This allows
and even encourages a more heterozygous genotype. When inbred, you get a
lot of genetic deformities. I have had pairs of angelfish that look good
throw batches of 100% deformed fry.
Killies are different because they are killies, which is much of the
attraction for some of us. You are welcome to try to develop your own
aquarium strains has has been done with orange australes, gold gardneris,
dwarf red gularis, and various albino strains. Just be prepared for many
failures and some resistance to accepting your fish.
Best wishes,
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
Behalf Of Hladky, John
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:58 AM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
This is skirting the issue that has been my question since this
thread started (indeed since I started reading killietalk several years
ago). Why are killiefish so different than these others? As was stated
below, to strengthen an angelfish line different collection sites are
mixed with aquarium strains. Discus aquarium strains are "derived from
mixing the different river collections". None of these have infertility
problems after a few generations. Why won't this work for killiefish?
I can't see how they could be are more isolated than others. All lake
fish are isolated from other populations. Someone needs to experiment
by mixing as many different populations of the same sub-species of
killiefish to see if aquarium strains can be breed and established for
many generations.
Much talk has taken place on this list about the failure to
attract and keep interested killiekeepers. One of the reasons stated is
the difficulty of raising killies in commercial quantities. I think
that not being able to keep a line of fish breeding for more than a few
generations without them going infertile is a much bigger issue. Who
wants to attempt to maintain a species that will invariably peter out
after a few generations.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to dispel my
ignorance. I appreciate the other well written answers to my ramblings.
They have been very informative, but no one has yet explained why
breeding programs that work for other fish don't work for killies.
John in Huntsville
-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org] On
Behalf Of R. Brice
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:48 PM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
Hello John,
The collecting codes for cichlids are hidden in the name: Ps demasoni
"pombo
rock" ... where the pombo rock is the collection code. Lab. C. "lions
cove"
is another collection code and so on for a lot of African cichlids.
Discus have river collections attached to them unless they are an
aquarium
strain (derived from mixing the different river collections)
Guppies are so mixed that there are very few wild strains traded ...
Angels have collection codes but only for the "wilds" and are tracked
only
by a few top breeders to clean out the genetic problems that follow
strains
like the gold marble pearlscale, which does not occur in the wild but
only a
domesticated "aquarium strain"
A few quick notes,
Richard Brice
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jabba" <diapteronsrgud at yahoo_ca>
To: <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
> HI;
> I have been following the series of posts on collection codes and I
am
> trying to understand the logic about maintaining them. To my way of
> thinking, after a given species has been kept and bred in your
fishroom
> for a couple of generations the collection code is no longer valid for
> this particular pair and its offspring should take on a code relating
to
> your fishroom. After all its native biotope is now that of a location
in
> your house.
>
> I wouldn't think that there is ever any likelihood of ever taking any
> species back to the original collecting point to possibly repopulate
it. I
> have kept and bred many different fish over the years; Angels,
Guppies,
> Barbs, Cichlids, Discus, etc etc,and I don't see this kind of
> concentration on a code relating to an original collecting point for
these
> fish so why is it done for my new love, Killifish.
>
> John J
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:34:21 -0400
> From: "Ken"
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
> To: "'killifish discussion list'"
>
> I'm not t all against codes or labeling, as anyone who has received my
> fish
> or visited my home can testify; when it comes to labeling and
"isolation",
> I'm either paranoid, schitzo, or both :-) (fancy/detailed labels are
my
> thing!)
>
> ...anyway, the whole point of codes/labeling is genetic
> integrity/identification...my crystal ball tells me; once it becomes
> cheap/easy to do; labeling per DNA/genetic "Code" in some manner is
the
> logical way to go...all else is really moot (if indeed genetic purity
is
> the
> only reason for comprehensive labeling)
>
> Goals: understood we all got individual goals, but gotta admit there
is
> some
> hobby centric peer pressure & defacto unwritten/written codes of
ethics
> we/most follow...and those "rules" are indeed centered around some
kind of
> less visible goal(s),(or the behaviors these rules govern are near
> pointless)...
>
> My thoughts were: w/o a clear understanding of exactly what we are
trying
> to
> accomplish through using codes & standards, any implementation thereto
is
> relatively inefficient/meaningless unless the effort is concerted,
widely
> practiced and understood what it is we are supposed to accomplish
> ..Basically, other that I.D and therefore "dollar value", I'm not
really
> certain
>
> ....pardon the slight soapbox journey there ;-)
>
> KC
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
Yahoo!
> Answers.
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>
>
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