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Re: [Killietalk] Diapterons: defect genetic or enviroment
If you type in "Influence of temperature on the number of vertebrae in fish" on Google you will find a website refrencing this article by Y. Itazawa from Nature May 16, 1959. Click on his name a list of his articles come up. Looks like you need a membership to read the article. Maybe one of you two gentleman can access it there.
Lonny
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
> I found a reference in an old Nature publication, which I'm now trying
> to get. Our OSU vet. library doesn't have holdings going back that far.
> The reference is:
>
> Influence of temperature on the number of vertebrae in fish.
> Nature. 1959 May 16;183(4672):1408-9.
>
> I'll report later if I find it.
>
> Barry
>
> Barry J. Cooper
> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>
>
>
> Robert Goldstein wrote:
> > This is real old and I couldn't put my finger on it easily. I'm copying
> > Bruce Turner who probably knows about this as well. There were many old
> > papers on Fundulus and Cyprinodon showing diminishing numbers of vertebrae
> > with latitude (I don't recall in which direction) and that was explained as
> > not a subspecies characteristic but a temperture effect in the old
> > physiological literature. - Bob G.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Barry Cooper"
> > To: "killifish discussion list"
> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Diapterons: defect genetic or enviroment
> >
> >
> >
> >> I have seen the same phenomenon is a couple of species of
> >> Nothobranchius. It was very frustrating because it caused me to lose one
> >> particularly desirable species. I have seen in recently in a second
> >> species. The the latter case I hatched quite a few different species at
> >> the same time and all the others appear to be normal.
> >>
> >> A friend reported to me that he had seen the same thing and that he
> >> attributed it to low temperatures. I think he did that out of trial and
> >> error, finding that increasing temperature prevented the effect. It is
> >> interesting to think about the possibility that the low temperature
> >> causes either loss of vertebrae of shortening of vertebrae. Bob, I'd be
> >> very interested in knowing the references if you have them available. I
> >> would think that the effect would have to occur during development of
> >> the embryo, that is during incubation of the eggs, rather than at the
> >> juvenile stage, if the loss of vertebrae effect is true. I would have to
> >> think that fish don't produce extra vertebrae after hatching.
> >>
> >> Another friend has the same species in which I first saw this problem.
> >> He incubates his eggs at a controlled temperature while mine are
> >> incubated on shelves high up in my fishroom. The latter is kept in the
> >> low to mid 70s so the temperature up there should be mid to high 70s.
> >> However, it could fluctuate during the year and could result in sporadic
> >> occurrence of this problem. Food for thought. Maybe it's time to build
> >> an incubator.
> >>
> >> Interesting thoughts. I'd like to hear whether others have had this
> >> experience.
> >>
> >> Barry
> >>
> >> Barry J. Cooper
> >> Sweet Home, OR 97386
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert Goldstein wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is scientific literature that correlates colder temperatures with
> >>> fewer vertebrae in killifishes, and vitamin deficiencies with bent spines
> >>> in
> >>> many fishes. Correlations are not proof of cause and effect, but they
> >>> should be considered.
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Miguel Angel"
> >>> To: "lista AKA"
> >>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:24 AM
> >>> Subject: [Killietalk] Diapterons: defect genetic or enviroment
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I keep for two years Diap. Georgiae 95 Essongville without problems.
> >>>> They
> >>>> spawn, hatch well the eggs and they developed more or less normally. I
> >>>> also
> >>>> have Diap. Cyanostictum from 2006 november.
> >>>>
> >>>> Some young of georgiae and cyanostictum that was born at 2006 November
> >>>> are
> >>>> "short". The aspect of the fish is like an adult but its form is like if
> >>>> we compress it the length, keeping the height. More or less their length
> >>>> is around 2-2,5cm. They are healthy but abnormally short. They reminds
> >>>> me
> >>>> when years ago a friend talk me about the killis "bonsai".
> >>>>
> >>>> Reading something of information that there is at internet, somebody
> >>>> attributes to low temperatures during the juvenile time the fact that
> >>>> they
> >>>> cut the growth and stay small. Other attributes it to the inbreedings
> >>>> with brothers. It says to the increase on infertility and the fish to
> >>>> stay
> >>>> small.
> >>>>
> >>>> Those born in November are the first generation of reproduced Diap.
> >>>> georgiae. The cyanostictum comes from some eggs that a friend give me.
> >>>> The
> >>>> hypothesis that the low temperatures causes "dwarfism" can be true
> >>>> because
> >>>> some georgiae from 2006 June (first generation) are perfect.
> >>>>
> >>>> As control group I have some georgiae fry (2ª generation) and fulgens
> >>>> (1ª
> >>>> generation) that were born me in March. For the moment, their aspect is
> >>>> normal, lengthened and fine. We will see that it happens when I breed
> >>>> the
> >>>> "short" cyanostictum and georgiae. I will see that it occurs to the fry;
> >>>> if they "dwarfism" is heredity or if they will have a good development.
> >>>> I
> >>>> must maintain the temperature since they born at 23-24ºC. to discard the
> >>>> influence of the low temperature.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Did somebody happen something similar? Up to now I never see on my
> >>>> breeding killis symptoms of "dwarfism". It is certain that the fish
> >>>> developed in small aquariums usually have less size than those that have
> >>>> grow in big aquariums. But this affects to the general aspect and the
> >>>> obtained fish are proportional and not compressed lengthwise.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any comment is appreciated
> >>>>
> >>>> Best wishes from Spain
> >>>> Miguel Angel Saiz
> >>>> www.misaher.es
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> >>>> Sé un Mejor Amante del Cine
> >>>> ¿Quieres saber cómo? ¡Deja que otras personas te ayuden!
> >>>> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/reto/entretenimiento.html
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
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