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Re: [Killietalk] Diapterons: defect genetic or enviroment
I found a reference in an old Nature publication, which I'm now trying
to get. Our OSU vet. library doesn't have holdings going back that far.
The reference is:
Influence of temperature on the number of vertebrae in fish.
Nature. 1959 May 16;183(4672):1408-9.
I'll report later if I find it.
Barry
Barry J. Cooper
Sweet Home, OR 97386
Robert Goldstein wrote:
> This is real old and I couldn't put my finger on it easily. I'm copying
> Bruce Turner who probably knows about this as well. There were many old
> papers on Fundulus and Cyprinodon showing diminishing numbers of vertebrae
> with latitude (I don't recall in which direction) and that was explained as
> not a subspecies characteristic but a temperture effect in the old
> physiological literature. - Bob G.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Diapterons: defect genetic or enviroment
>
>
>
>> I have seen the same phenomenon is a couple of species of
>> Nothobranchius. It was very frustrating because it caused me to lose one
>> particularly desirable species. I have seen in recently in a second
>> species. The the latter case I hatched quite a few different species at
>> the same time and all the others appear to be normal.
>>
>> A friend reported to me that he had seen the same thing and that he
>> attributed it to low temperatures. I think he did that out of trial and
>> error, finding that increasing temperature prevented the effect. It is
>> interesting to think about the possibility that the low temperature
>> causes either loss of vertebrae of shortening of vertebrae. Bob, I'd be
>> very interested in knowing the references if you have them available. I
>> would think that the effect would have to occur during development of
>> the embryo, that is during incubation of the eggs, rather than at the
>> juvenile stage, if the loss of vertebrae effect is true. I would have to
>> think that fish don't produce extra vertebrae after hatching.
>>
>> Another friend has the same species in which I first saw this problem.
>> He incubates his eggs at a controlled temperature while mine are
>> incubated on shelves high up in my fishroom. The latter is kept in the
>> low to mid 70s so the temperature up there should be mid to high 70s.
>> However, it could fluctuate during the year and could result in sporadic
>> occurrence of this problem. Food for thought. Maybe it's time to build
>> an incubator.
>>
>> Interesting thoughts. I'd like to hear whether others have had this
>> experience.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> Barry J. Cooper
>> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert Goldstein wrote:
>>
>>> There is scientific literature that correlates colder temperatures with
>>> fewer vertebrae in killifishes, and vitamin deficiencies with bent spines
>>> in
>>> many fishes. Correlations are not proof of cause and effect, but they
>>> should be considered.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Miguel Angel" <misaher at yahoo_es>
>>> To: "lista AKA" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:24 AM
>>> Subject: [Killietalk] Diapterons: defect genetic or enviroment
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I keep for two years Diap. Georgiae 95 Essongville without problems.
>>>> They
>>>> spawn, hatch well the eggs and they developed more or less normally. I
>>>> also
>>>> have Diap. Cyanostictum from 2006 november.
>>>>
>>>> Some young of georgiae and cyanostictum that was born at 2006 November
>>>> are
>>>> "short". The aspect of the fish is like an adult but its form is like if
>>>> we compress it the length, keeping the height. More or less their length
>>>> is around 2-2,5cm. They are healthy but abnormally short. They reminds
>>>> me
>>>> when years ago a friend talk me about the killis "bonsai".
>>>>
>>>> Reading something of information that there is at internet, somebody
>>>> attributes to low temperatures during the juvenile time the fact that
>>>> they
>>>> cut the growth and stay small. Other attributes it to the inbreedings
>>>> with brothers. It says to the increase on infertility and the fish to
>>>> stay
>>>> small.
>>>>
>>>> Those born in November are the first generation of reproduced Diap.
>>>> georgiae. The cyanostictum comes from some eggs that a friend give me.
>>>> The
>>>> hypothesis that the low temperatures causes "dwarfism" can be true
>>>> because
>>>> some georgiae from 2006 June (first generation) are perfect.
>>>>
>>>> As control group I have some georgiae fry (2ª generation) and fulgens
>>>> (1ª
>>>> generation) that were born me in March. For the moment, their aspect is
>>>> normal, lengthened and fine. We will see that it happens when I breed
>>>> the
>>>> "short" cyanostictum and georgiae. I will see that it occurs to the fry;
>>>> if they "dwarfism" is heredity or if they will have a good development.
>>>> I
>>>> must maintain the temperature since they born at 23-24ºC. to discard the
>>>> influence of the low temperature.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did somebody happen something similar? Up to now I never see on my
>>>> breeding killis symptoms of "dwarfism". It is certain that the fish
>>>> developed in small aquariums usually have less size than those that have
>>>> grow in big aquariums. But this affects to the general aspect and the
>>>> obtained fish are proportional and not compressed lengthwise.
>>>>
>>>> Any comment is appreciated
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes from Spain
>>>> Miguel Angel Saiz
>>>> www.misaher.es
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>> Sé un Mejor Amante del Cine
>>>> ¿Quieres saber cómo? ¡Deja que otras personas te ayuden!
>>>> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/reto/entretenimiento.html
>>>>
>>>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
>> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>> Modify your subscription at
>> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>
>
>
> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>
>
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
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