[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
Hey Fred, yea we can think and yea, I get it. If there is an elaborate history about the historic collections, then the hobbyist will find out as best as he/she can. I have heard all this stuff ever since I have been on killietalk. If there wasn't a hobbyist to buy the fish, then the collector would'nt have named it with his code, would he? I say dont buy fish from nuts. Thats what I have learned.
Mark Delraso
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Fred Behrmann <athensaquatics at juno_com>
> Hi Kingfish, The ponds are not numbered with a sign when you walk up to
> them. NOT LIKE This is pond 11 and anyone who collects from this
> pond must give us credit for owning pond 11. It's more like Keith Jones
> from England collects from this certain pond (near East Bumfuck), but it
> is the 3rd pond he dipped his net into on this trip(2007). These fish
> carry the code , East Bumfuck KF 03-07. Next year if he chooses to route
> his trip differently it could be called pond 14( East Bumfuck KJ 14-08).
> Now Karl Jones from Germany does a little collecting also and visits that
> certain pond on his vacation in 2008 . It's the first hole he ever dipped
> into and the thing he pulls out is called by location , East Bumfuck KJ
> 01- 08. On his vacation next year he decides to reverse his route and
> this particular pond now becomes KJ 17 -09 . He hears about the other nut
> in England and they decide that for 2011 they will meet in Xxx and do
> collecting together. When they come to the pond that looks very familiar
> to both of them it becomes KJKJ 11-11 for any fish either one of them
> collects from the 11th pond the two of them visited and collected from
> together. Do you get it. Collection codes are FOR the collectors NOT
> the person or persons receiving the collections. Can't you people think
> out there! on Fri, 03 Aug 2007
> 02:09:05 +0000 kingfish77 at comcast_net writes:
> > David,
> >
> > I don't know if I can give you the answer that you are looking for,
> > but I can tell you what I do. Take A. bochtleri GWW 86-11. I have
> > had this location for a long time. So, when I have had them going
> > for awhile, I will shop for the same location to preserve it's
> > phenotype. Even if the other hobbyist aquired initial breeding stock
> > at relatively the same time, I will cross his/her strain of 86-11's
> > to keep the strain going. In this particular fish, a moderate
> > degree of variability occurs. I do not line breed for just the
> > really gaudy individuals because I am trying to keep them natural as
> > possible. The last time that I did this, I was lucky enough to
> > aquire stock from Europe. Those individuals had been maintained by
> > a hobbyist that was one of the first to get them in 1987. My strain
> > ( location: my fishroom) still look like the original examples that
> > I first fell in love with years ago. The other varieties of
> > bochtleri are not colored the same. They are more purple and
> > green.
> > Even though you could argue that once you have kept them going for
> > a long time, you possibly get stuck with a single fish, you might
> > say well I just get a male from the other location to keep them
> > going. Well you can do that as long as you indicate that it is just
> > an aquarium strain - no location.But the thing is, you have actually
> > just lost the strain if you ended up with an individual and crossed
> > it to a different location.
> >
> > One of the things that I appreciated about killifish hobbyist when I
> > first got involved in the AKA, was that there was an aim to conserve
> > the fish, as best as possible, as it's original phenotype. No
> > sports! It does not matter to me at all that they have been away,
> > many generations from the wild. I am trying to capture the fish,
> > long term, in it's natural state. A living work of art. So, what way
> > do I accomplish that? I keep track of the location and find out
> > who else is working with the same fish. Quite frankly, I would
> > seriously be upset if someone passed me a pair of fish that had
> > another location in the wood pile. To me, even though they may be
> > good looking fish, it is not the same.
> >
> > When you write about the commercial imports, and how you have no
> > consistency of a code, just call them CI from whatever year. That
> > is all that is needed for that grade of fish. There is nothing
> > wrong with commercial imports, but those fish are segregated from
> > the ones that have real location info in my fishroom. Often times,
> > commercial imports are the only way to aquire the fish. I am
> > inclined to say that this may be one of the best reasons to get
> > stock from known and reliable sources (AKA) I certainly have
> > nothing against anyone providing commercial import stock to those
> > who are interested in them, but when a member of the club spends his
> > or her resources to go and collect fish, and I get some, I am
> > keeping the location straight as long as I have them. If you take a
> > look at some of the annuals that are being collected in South
> > America, you can see slight differences, a grading of the species
> > just in a few miles distance from each other. The best way that I
> > can say why ke
> > ep tra
> > ck is by mentioning that each location is a painting. You dont
> > throw all of the Salvador Dali's in a room and indicate Artwork on
> > the door. Each painting gets a special spot on a wall with a title.
> > It gives them meaning. And if they are commercial prints, they can
> > still be enjoyed. If they are not signed by the artist, then who
> > knows? I am not trying to be argumentative, but we have given this
> > subject too much attention this week. You know another wat to look
> > at it is that locations are how we communicate to each other. Like
> > mathemiticians, we know what our fellow hobbyist is talking about
> > because we are speaking the same language, even if some of the terms
> > are not consistent. You know: Misaje, G24-80, Zomoko, and so on. I
> > am pretty sure most that have been around for awhile know those fish
> > by their location while the names may have changed.
> >
> > Mark Delraso
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Delraso
> > Indianapolis
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: John Jabba
> >
> > > David et al;
> > > Okay, there are other fish that have collection codes. I'll give
> > you that.
> > > But nobody has addressed one of my questions and the one I feel is
> > most
> > > important. Why should a given pair of killies kept and bred in a
> > hobbyists tank
> > > keep a collection code from a location that they are extremely
> > remote from in
> > > terms of generations of fish. They have bee bred and have grown up
> > in a far
> > > different biotope than the original pair of imported fish. For
> > example, a pair
> > > out of your tanks, if a collection code is given, should be DL01.
> > Your initials
> > > and sequence number. Actually from things I have heard in the past
> > some of the
> > > codes really weren't that valid because the importers didn't like
> > to advertise
> > > some of their collecting sites. And in a lot of cases in this day
> > and age the
> > > importers are not even with the collectors and who knows if they
> > are really
> > > giving a location or just satisfying us with some numbers and
> > letters...
> > >
> > > Maybe I have too much time on my hands and thinking too much. But
> > I believe
> > > these are valid points for discussion. we did get alopng for a lot
> > of years
> > > without collecting codes and it didn't seem to harm the hobby...
> > >
> > > John J.
> > > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:33:40 -0700
> > > From: "David Lains"
> > > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
> >
> > > To: "'killifish discussion list'"
> > >
> > > Hi John
> > >
> > > I would argue that many cichlids have locations and well not
> > guppies but
> > > species livebearers have both collection codes and locations.
> > >
> > > It's true we'll likely never return fish to the wild but at least
> > we can try
> > > to maintain distinct populations.
> > >
> > > Best Fishes
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk
> > email the boot
> > > with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
> > > Join the AKA at
> > http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > > Modify your subscription at
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > Join the AKA at
> > http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > Modify your subscription at
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >
> >
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Fred Behrmann
> Athens Aquatics
> 37 W. Bridge Street
> Catskill, NY 12414 Phone:(518) 943-2630
> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk