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Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
Hi Kingfish, The ponds are not numbered with a sign when you walk up to
them. NOT LIKE This is pond 11 and anyone who collects from this
pond must give us credit for owning pond 11. It's more like Keith Jones
from England collects from this certain pond (near East Bumfuck), but it
is the 3rd pond he dipped his net into on this trip(2007). These fish
carry the code , East Bumfuck KF 03-07. Next year if he chooses to route
his trip differently it could be called pond 14( East Bumfuck KJ 14-08).
Now Karl Jones from Germany does a little collecting also and visits that
certain pond on his vacation in 2008 . It's the first hole he ever dipped
into and the thing he pulls out is called by location , East Bumfuck KJ
01- 08. On his vacation next year he decides to reverse his route and
this particular pond now becomes KJ 17 -09 . He hears about the other nut
in England and they decide that for 2011 they will meet in Xxx and do
collecting together. When they come to the pond that looks very familiar
to both of them it becomes KJKJ 11-11 for any fish either one of them
collects from the 11th pond the two of them visited and collected from
together. Do you get it. Collection codes are FOR the collectors NOT
the person or persons receiving the collections. Can't you people think
out there! on Fri, 03 Aug 2007
02:09:05 +0000 kingfish77 at comcast_net writes:
> David,
>
> I don't know if I can give you the answer that you are looking for,
> but I can tell you what I do. Take A. bochtleri GWW 86-11. I have
> had this location for a long time. So, when I have had them going
> for awhile, I will shop for the same location to preserve it's
> phenotype. Even if the other hobbyist aquired initial breeding stock
> at relatively the same time, I will cross his/her strain of 86-11's
> to keep the strain going. In this particular fish, a moderate
> degree of variability occurs. I do not line breed for just the
> really gaudy individuals because I am trying to keep them natural as
> possible. The last time that I did this, I was lucky enough to
> aquire stock from Europe. Those individuals had been maintained by
> a hobbyist that was one of the first to get them in 1987. My strain
> ( location: my fishroom) still look like the original examples that
> I first fell in love with years ago. The other varieties of
> bochtleri are not colored the same. They are more purple and
> green.
> Even though you could argue that once you have kept them going for
> a long time, you possibly get stuck with a single fish, you might
> say well I just get a male from the other location to keep them
> going. Well you can do that as long as you indicate that it is just
> an aquarium strain - no location.But the thing is, you have actually
> just lost the strain if you ended up with an individual and crossed
> it to a different location.
>
> One of the things that I appreciated about killifish hobbyist when I
> first got involved in the AKA, was that there was an aim to conserve
> the fish, as best as possible, as it's original phenotype. No
> sports! It does not matter to me at all that they have been away,
> many generations from the wild. I am trying to capture the fish,
> long term, in it's natural state. A living work of art. So, what way
> do I accomplish that? I keep track of the location and find out
> who else is working with the same fish. Quite frankly, I would
> seriously be upset if someone passed me a pair of fish that had
> another location in the wood pile. To me, even though they may be
> good looking fish, it is not the same.
>
> When you write about the commercial imports, and how you have no
> consistency of a code, just call them CI from whatever year. That
> is all that is needed for that grade of fish. There is nothing
> wrong with commercial imports, but those fish are segregated from
> the ones that have real location info in my fishroom. Often times,
> commercial imports are the only way to aquire the fish. I am
> inclined to say that this may be one of the best reasons to get
> stock from known and reliable sources (AKA) I certainly have
> nothing against anyone providing commercial import stock to those
> who are interested in them, but when a member of the club spends his
> or her resources to go and collect fish, and I get some, I am
> keeping the location straight as long as I have them. If you take a
> look at some of the annuals that are being collected in South
> America, you can see slight differences, a grading of the species
> just in a few miles distance from each other. The best way that I
> can say why ke
> ep tra
> ck is by mentioning that each location is a painting. You dont
> throw all of the Salvador Dali's in a room and indicate Artwork on
> the door. Each painting gets a special spot on a wall with a title.
> It gives them meaning. And if they are commercial prints, they can
> still be enjoyed. If they are not signed by the artist, then who
> knows? I am not trying to be argumentative, but we have given this
> subject too much attention this week. You know another wat to look
> at it is that locations are how we communicate to each other. Like
> mathemiticians, we know what our fellow hobbyist is talking about
> because we are speaking the same language, even if some of the terms
> are not consistent. You know: Misaje, G24-80, Zomoko, and so on. I
> am pretty sure most that have been around for awhile know those fish
> by their location while the names may have changed.
>
> Mark Delraso
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> Mark Delraso
> Indianapolis
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: John Jabba <diapteronsrgud at yahoo_ca>
>
> > David et al;
> > Okay, there are other fish that have collection codes. I'll give
> you that.
> > But nobody has addressed one of my questions and the one I feel is
> most
> > important. Why should a given pair of killies kept and bred in a
> hobbyists tank
> > keep a collection code from a location that they are extremely
> remote from in
> > terms of generations of fish. They have bee bred and have grown up
> in a far
> > different biotope than the original pair of imported fish. For
> example, a pair
> > out of your tanks, if a collection code is given, should be DL01.
> Your initials
> > and sequence number. Actually from things I have heard in the past
> some of the
> > codes really weren't that valid because the importers didn't like
> to advertise
> > some of their collecting sites. And in a lot of cases in this day
> and age the
> > importers are not even with the collectors and who knows if they
> are really
> > giving a location or just satisfying us with some numbers and
> letters...
> >
> > Maybe I have too much time on my hands and thinking too much. But
> I believe
> > these are valid points for discussion. we did get alopng for a lot
> of years
> > without collecting codes and it didn't seem to harm the hobby...
> >
> > John J.
> > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:33:40 -0700
> > From: "David Lains"
> > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
>
> > To: "'killifish discussion list'"
> >
> > Hi John
> >
> > I would argue that many cichlids have locations and well not
> guppies but
> > species livebearers have both collection codes and locations.
> >
> > It's true we'll likely never return fish to the wild but at least
> we can try
> > to maintain distinct populations.
> >
> > Best Fishes
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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>
Sincerely,
Fred Behrmann
Athens Aquatics
37 W. Bridge Street
Catskill, NY 12414 Phone:(518) 943-2630
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
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