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Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
If somebody has a wild collection or a new locality s/he can figure out how
he wants to tag it for there are no rules in effect nor needed. These
endless justifications and suggestions for new rules is getting old. I'm
tempted to delete emails with "commercial imports" in the subject line. Can
we please move on to criticizing the BNL or JAKA or one of the officers?
That's always entertaining.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Pierce" <rwpierce at att_net>
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
> Hi John,
>
> The usefulness of collection codes or at least locality names has been
> increasingly recognized by livebearer keepers and cichlid keepers. A
> large
> percentage of the fish you see in pet stores are commercially bred in
> fish
> farms in Florida or Asia, and many are hybrids. This is especially true
> for
> many malawian cichlids, livebearers, and rainbowfishes. Many farm-raised
> fish are also treated with hormones to increase their color. While these
> fish are acceptable for many people, eventually those who want to breed
> and
> observe the fish may become disenchanted with these fish. Hybrid fish may
> not exhibit natural breeding behaviors and coloration of the young may not
> resemble the wild fish. Much of the hobby around fancy livebearers,
> angelfish and discus revolves around selective breeding and most of the
> fish
> are also likely to be hybrids. There is nothing wrong with this approach,
> it is a matter of personal taste.
>
> As people become more specialized keepers of certain groups of fish there
> also seems to be an inevitable pull towards keeping the wild forms. To
> get
> these fish, you want to know where they came from, and that there is a
> good
> chance that they are actually what the seller claims them to be. If you
> purchase your killies from AKA members, for example, you are more likely
> to
> get unhybridized fish with a good record of the pedigree of the fish.
>
> Most of us do assume that there will be some "unnatural selection"
> occurring
> in our fishrooms, but the fish are not evolving into new species in the
> matter of a few generations. If I keep the collection code with a fish, I
> can trade fish from the same collection with others who keep the fish to
> help keep the genetic diversity within the population. I can be sure that
> the offspring of these fish are not hybrids. Without a collection code,
> breeding with fish from others becomes a crap shoot, as was previously
> stated. I say that we assume that there is some "unnatural selection" as
> this has not been proven. In fact many killifish seem to have remarkably
> stable genomes and breed true without deformities decades after being
> introduced. Thus you cannot assume that the fish in your fishroom has
> changed in only 5 or 10 years. Even if we observe changes in the
> appearance, it is possible that phenotype changes do not reflect genotype
> changes. Changes in coloration, size and finnage extension can be caused
> by
> the type of food fed and by husbandry practices.
>
> In the end, it is up to you to decide if you want to keep collection codes
> or not. You will find that if you want to sell your offspring, fish with
> collection codes will often bring in more money than those without. You
> are
> also free to hybridize fish in your fishroom as much as you want, but our
> ethical code requires that you honestly describe the fish you pass on.
> Killie keepers are a small community and if you get a reputation for
> passing
> on hybrid or poor-quality fish, you may find that people may not want any
> of
> your fish.
>
> Best wishes,
> Rich Pierce
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
> Behalf Of John Jabba
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:06 PM
> To: killietalk at aka_org
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
>
>
> HI;
> I have been following the series of posts on collection codes and I am
> trying to understand the logic about maintaining them. To my way of
> thinking, after a given species has been kept and bred in your fishroom
> for
> a couple of generations the collection code is no longer valid for this
> particular pair and its offspring should take on a code relating to your
> fishroom. After all its native biotope is now that of a location in your
> house.
>
> I wouldn't think that there is ever any likelihood of ever taking any
> species back to the original collecting point to possibly repopulate it. I
> have kept and bred many different fish over the years; Angels, Guppies,
> Barbs, Cichlids, Discus, etc etc,and I don't see this kind of
> concentration
> on a code relating to an original collecting point for these fish so why
> is
> it done for my new love, Killifish.
>
> John J
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:34:21 -0400
> From: "Ken"
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Commercial imports; what to label them?
> To: "'killifish discussion list'"
>
> I'm not t all against codes or labeling, as anyone who has received my
> fish
> or visited my home can testify; when it comes to labeling and "isolation",
> I'm either paranoid, schitzo, or both :-) (fancy/detailed labels are my
> thing!)
>
> ...anyway, the whole point of codes/labeling is genetic
> integrity/identification...my crystal ball tells me; once it becomes
> cheap/easy to do; labeling per DNA/genetic "Code" in some manner is the
> logical way to go...all else is really moot (if indeed genetic purity is
> the
> only reason for comprehensive labeling)
>
> Goals: understood we all got individual goals, but gotta admit there is
> some
> hobby centric peer pressure & defacto unwritten/written codes of ethics
> we/most follow...and those "rules" are indeed centered around some kind of
> less visible goal(s),(or the behaviors these rules govern are near
> pointless)...
>
> My thoughts were: w/o a clear understanding of exactly what we are trying
> to
> accomplish through using codes & standards, any implementation thereto is
> relatively inefficient/meaningless unless the effort is concerted, widely
> practiced and understood what it is we are supposed to accomplish
> ..Basically, other that I.D and therefore "dollar value", I'm not really
> certain
>
> ....pardon the slight soapbox journey there ;-)
>
> KC
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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