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Re: [Killietalk] Sudden death or resurrection?



Thanks Bob.  This particular fish was a young F. bifax who had been  
in the tank with his fellow species for at least a month and since he  
was not the smallest but certainly not the largest, I am wondering if  
he was semi-starved and had just given up?  Don't guess I will ever  
understand what happened, but I put him in a bowl and threw in some  
rock salt, put in an air line and walked away thinking I would find  
him dead in a few hours.  When I returned he was fine and trying to  
jump out of the bowl.   Bifax are not fighters except when it comes  
of food, and I wonder if he had one too many pieces of redworm jerked  
out of his mouth.  Intimadation can be a powerful thing.         Joe
On Jul 16, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Robert Goldstein wrote:

> I'm familiar with sudden death-shock from talking with discus and  
> angelfish
> importers in Miami and from my own experience with juvenile marine  
> clownfish
> and from collecting swamp fish in N.C. . Physically, the fish  
> spread their
> gills and mouths, locking them open, and apparently die from  
> asphyxiation
> since they cannot ventilate the gills. It is often associated with  
> sudden
> bright light ater being in the dark. I've seen somethng similar  
> when naive
> fish are chased and cornered, or when fish are put directly from  
> hard into
> soft water, or from well-aerated soft water into stagnant soft  
> water. The
> water quality observations could have been due to light changes  
> (dark to
> bright), but I can't be sure. Shocked fish look light they're in  
> tetanus and
> seldom survive, but I've had the occasional one make it.  The best  
> way to
> avoid this is to slowly expose packaged fish to dim light for a day  
> or two
> before going to normal lighting.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Scanlan" <drkillinut at mac_com>
> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Sudden death or resurrection?
>
>
>> Thanks all for all this information about sudden death[shock].  I
>> need to give you more information and let's see where this leads.  I
>> have well water [no chlorine].  The first case could have been
>> nitrite toxicity as I will admit to poor water changes.  The last
>> case occurred in a normal populated tank that has almost daily water
>> changes so I don't think it could have been a build up of ammonia and
>> certainly no chlorine.  The fish looked healthy and had no sign of
>> abuse, so for me this was a real mystery and prompted the query.  Any
>> more thoughts?    Joe
>> On Jul 15, 2007, at 4:14 PM, lee Van Hyfte wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joe,
>>>
>>> I'd be leaning towards electrolyte shock.   if you are using mains
>>> water you
>>> often see shifts in the actual source of the water which would
>>> appear to be
>>> the same.   Often the water dept. will have to shift from river
>>> water to
>>> well water.   I have seen fluctuations in Local mains from over 550
>>> ppm to
>>> 120ppm.  This can be rather dangerous to many fish.
>>>
>>> Calcium Potassium Magnesium and Sodium imbalances and sudden shifts
>>> can
>>> induce seizure activity.  I found this most often in Juvenile and
>>> older
>>> adult specimens.    The Salt bath would induce a sudden shift in
>>> the ionic
>>> balances.
>>>
>>> If however it is nitrate toxicity.  A 1.5 dose of Methylene Blue
>>> bath for
>>> 24-48 will assist in removing the nitrate ions which have bound  
>>> to the
>>> Hemoglobin molecules.   Basically stripping the N03 off and
>>> allowing the
>>> hemoglobin to again carry oxygen.
>>>
>>> If ammonia Increasing oxygenation will be critical as the gills are
>>> badly
>>> burned.   Try Hydrogen peroxide 3% at 3 drops per gallon per 12
>>> hours.  Mix
>>> it into a glass of water prior to adding to the tank.
>>>
>>> The hydrogen peroxide can be used in Nitrate poisoning to assure
>>> that the
>>> hemoglobin is saturated with as much oxygen as possible.
>>>
>>> God Bless, lee <><
>>>
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>
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