Re: [Killietalk] Sudden death or resurrection?

["Robert Goldstein" <rgoldstein at rjgaCarolina_com>]

I'm familiar with sudden death-shock from talking with discus and angelfish 
importers in Miami and from my own experience with juvenile marine clownfish 
and from collecting swamp fish in N.C. . Physically, the fish spread their 
gills and mouths, locking them open, and apparently die from asphyxiation 
since they cannot ventilate the gills. It is often associated with sudden 
bright light ater being in the dark. I've seen somethng similar when naive 
fish are chased and cornered, or when fish are put directly from hard into 
soft water, or from well-aerated soft water into stagnant soft water. The 
water quality observations could have been due to light changes (dark to 
bright), but I can't be sure. Shocked fish look light they're in tetanus and 
seldom survive, but I've had the occasional one make it.  The best way to 
avoid this is to slowly expose packaged fish to dim light for a day or two 
before going to normal lighting.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joseph Scanlan" <drkillinut at mac_com>
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Sudden death or resurrection?


> Thanks all for all this information about sudden death[shock].  I
> need to give you more information and let's see where this leads.  I
> have well water [no chlorine].  The first case could have been
> nitrite toxicity as I will admit to poor water changes.  The last
> case occurred in a normal populated tank that has almost daily water
> changes so I don't think it could have been a build up of ammonia and
> certainly no chlorine.  The fish looked healthy and had no sign of
> abuse, so for me this was a real mystery and prompted the query.  Any
> more thoughts?    Joe
> On Jul 15, 2007, at 4:14 PM, lee Van Hyfte wrote:
>
>> Hi Joe,
>>
>> I'd be leaning towards electrolyte shock.   if you are using mains
>> water you
>> often see shifts in the actual source of the water which would
>> appear to be
>> the same.   Often the water dept. will have to shift from river
>> water to
>> well water.   I have seen fluctuations in Local mains from over 550
>> ppm to
>> 120ppm.  This can be rather dangerous to many fish.
>>
>> Calcium Potassium Magnesium and Sodium imbalances and sudden shifts
>> can
>> induce seizure activity.  I found this most often in Juvenile and
>> older
>> adult specimens.    The Salt bath would induce a sudden shift in
>> the ionic
>> balances.
>>
>> If however it is nitrate toxicity.  A 1.5 dose of Methylene Blue
>> bath for
>> 24-48 will assist in removing the nitrate ions which have bound to the
>> Hemoglobin molecules.   Basically stripping the N03 off and
>> allowing the
>> hemoglobin to again carry oxygen.
>>
>> If ammonia Increasing oxygenation will be critical as the gills are
>> badly
>> burned.   Try Hydrogen peroxide 3% at 3 drops per gallon per 12
>> hours.  Mix
>> it into a glass of water prior to adding to the tank.
>>
>> The hydrogen peroxide can be used in Nitrate poisoning to assure
>> that the
>> hemoglobin is saturated with as much oxygen as possible.
>>
>> God Bless, lee <><
>>
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