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[Killietalk] CI fish (was Re: The Modern AKA)
Lee Harper wrote:
> --- Wright Huntley <whuntley at verizon_net> wrote:
>> The part of Ken's post that I felt was most
>> important had to do with the
>> distribution mechanisms that have evolved.
>> I have reached a point where I consider any
>> commercial import as not
>> worth the effort, if it hasn't been in the hobby for
>> 5 or more
>> generations. Killies do not lend themselves to
>> commercial collection,
> Wright, I have had some of the best and most prolific
> specimens recently from some Commercial Imports.
I have, too, Lee. Just don't tell me they aren't hybrids until the 4th
or 5th generation. OK? That was a huge "if" in my statement. After
losing a couple of truly gorgeous and vigorous "Lagos" collections (BIT
and FIL) to unexpected infertility, my suspicion hackles have gone way up.
We have lost many other beautiful strains because they very mysteriously
became too hard to reproduce after about F2.
> Unfortunately they don't have very specific collection
> information -- Nigeria, Kribi, or nothing. But. not
> all of them sre that way, I agree. I also know, from
> personal experience, that bringing back fish from my
> own collecting trips is a difficult process. Therefore
> I appreciate even more when I can get healthy
> reproducing species from someone else's labors. The
> selling price is worth whatever they want to charge.
True. I agree, but we must make them know we only pay that top dollar
for pure stock. Anything else is totally unacceptable.
No selling price is too low, tho, if they are deliberately trying to
keep their sales up by making breeding difficult or impossible here. I
have enough experience with the exporters of SE Asia to know it happens
often and that we are basically at their mercy if we don't take proper
action to stop them from sabotaging our hobby. IMHO, the exporters of
Nigeria (ALL of them) should go back to their 914 scams and just leave
our hobby alone. [Liberia only looks good because there is a Nigerian
We could do it, but it takes 2 things:
1) A process to identify hybridization and other sabotage, early, and to
tag those strains, and
2) An organized program to blacklist or boycott any exporter caught
being careless or deliberately being a Luddite.[See
I wish I had a buck for every lament I have read here about fertility
problems in SJO, BIT, FIL, ARN, AUS, etc. I always wonder how many of
those folks got their fish from an old, established aquarium strain, or
from a reputable amateur collector (like you) who knew what he was
doing. Not many, I bet. I never had the fertility problems with fish
brought in by BAKA collectors, like Tirbak, Gallagher, Weber, etc. Some
were tough to get to F2 for other reasons, but those guys generally knew
how to collect the right females. Note that the problem is almost
invisible in Nothos, which are almost all brought into the hobby by
It seems to have become a huge problem with Brazilian annuals, as they
try to develop commercial exports. We never used to have the infertility
problems with SA Annuals that we have suddenly seen recently.
BTW, the process of trying to "keep as many genes as possible" is
exactly the wrong thing to do if an alien female is in the batch. It is
better to raise a bunch of gene-deprived separate strains than to spread
the alien genes to the whole gene pool. Fertility in each female's
offspring may even help identify the wrong female(s), too, after only
one or two generations. Then, and only then, you can safely gang spawn
for a broader gene pool.
Wright Huntley - Rt. 001 Box K36, Bishop CA 93514 - whuntley at verizon_net 760 937-2276 (cell) 760 872-3995.
"I find it necessary to remind myself firmly that the customs of my own tribe are not the laws of nature." Robert A Heinlein
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