Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 27Planaria & bearing capacity

["apistomaster at excite_com" <apistomaster at excite_com>]

 Just a few thoughts and factoids.1. Jordanella Flag Fish are reputed to eat hair algae but just as often shred fins. I suggest physical removal of as much as you can. A bamboo stick with a slit forked end works fairly well as a winding tool by twirling the forked end in the algae patch. An imperfect adjunct but biologically harmless.2. Nothing really eats common aquarium planaria. Tighten up your feeding and cleaning practices.Remove all fish and plants and raise the temperature to over 115dF for 24 hours and the planaria usually all die.3. Use the SpG of 2.67 for rocks and sand used in aquariums for determination of total weight furnished aquariums.    This will be close enough for structural calculations. The SpG of rocks is typically 2.65 to 2.67 x 62.4lbs(Wt of 1 cu ft pure water)+ density of rock in lbs/cu ft.4. Dr. Robert Goldstein is 100% correct that the corner of the room will be the location with the greatest weight bearing capacity; assuming conventional 
construction.--- On Wed 12/20, < killietalk-request at aka_org > wrote:From: [mailto: killietalk-request at aka_org]To: killietalk at aka_orgDate: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:52:18 -0500Subject: Killietalk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 27Send Killietalk mailing list submissions tokillietalk at aka_orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visithttp://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalkor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' tokillietalk-request at aka_orgYou can reach the person managing the list atkillietalk-owner at aka_orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Killietalk digest..."Today's Topics:1. Tank weight (wm crash)2. Re: Tank weight (Robert Goldstein)3. Re: Planeria (Flat worms) & hair algae (Doug Ebeling)4. Re: Tank weight (Bill Shenefelt)5. Re: Planeria (Flat worms) & hair algae (LeeH920226 at aol_com)6. Fertility in A. bitaeniatum at 3 years of age? (Joel Saunders)7. Re: Planeria (Flat worms) & 
hair algae (ccarlile at aol_com)8. Re: Tank weight (LeeH920226 at aol_com)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:57:49 +0000From: "wm crash" Subject: [Killietalk] Tank weightTo: killietalk at aka_orgHi,How can I figure out how heavy of a tank I can safely place in my house ?The floor I am looking at has carpet without the additional reinforcement that one would need for tile for example.cheers,wm_crash, the friendly hooliganAKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1Wilmington, DE_________________________________________________________________Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701------------------------------Message: 2Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:19:47 -0500From: "Robert Goldstein" Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Tank weightTo: "killifish discussion list" A reef tank is a beautiful amenity that the owner enjoys showing visitors. Its 
location and size should be decided early, with the living room or den usually the first choice. The underlying floor support - 2 x 4" wood frame studs, concrete - limits maximum tank size. A concrete floor in a den is usually risk-free, but watch for cracks in a settling house than can shift the floor into uneven planes. Although a wooden stud floor in a corner should support the weight of a large reef tank, even a slight sag poses the risk of stress on the glass bottom resulting in sudden panel separation or a cracked glass. The strongest location on a wooden floor is a corner.The typical reef tank is 70-135 gallons. It is set up with 1-2 pounds of rock (see Chapter 4) per gallon tank size, and often two to four inches of sand or gravel. The remaining 75 percent of tank capacity will be filled with water. Let's calculate the weight of any tank fully set up.The weight of the average tank and stand is a little more than 1.5 pounds per gallon, more for larger tanks. A 55 
gallon tank and stand will weigh about 85 pounds, a 100 gallon set-up about 175 pounds, and a 135 about 250 pounds. About 75 percent of the tank will be filled with water weighing 8.25 pounds per gallon. About 25 percent of the tank will be occupied by rock and sand or gravel. Estimate the rock and sand/gravel at 17 pounds per gallon or 17 pounds times 25 percent of the gallon capacity of the tank.Let's estimate the weight of a 135 gallon set-up. We're already estimated tank and stand at 250 pounds. Next, measure the base of the tank. A 135-gallon tank will be 18 inches back to front (wide), and 72 inches side to side (long), equal to 6 x 1.5 feet or 9 square feet. Using the square foot method to calculate the aragonite gravel needed, estimate 6.5 pounds per inch of gravel depth per square foot of tank bottom. For three inches of aragonite gravel you will need 6.5 x 3 x 9 or 175.5 pounds of gravel. It comes in 44-pound sacks, so four sacks will be just right (4 x 44 = 176). 
The square inch method to calculate the pounds of aragonite sand needed to fill a tank to a particular depth is to multiply L x W x D (where D is depth of sand desired) in inches, divide the product by 1728, and then multiply by 70.A 135-gallon tank is 24 inches high. After adding 3 inches of gravel, another 3 inches will be displaced by 1-2 pounds per gallon of live rock. At a minimum, the rock will weigh 135 pounds. If the tank is filled 75% with water, the water alone will weigh 835 pounds. And so the total weight of a 135 gallon reef tank in pounds = 250 (tank and stand) + 176 (gravel) + 135 (rock) + 835 (water) = 1,396 pounds or almost three quarters of a ton, with the weight distributed to four or six legs of the stand.The weight of a reef tank precludes using household furniture as ad-hoc stands. Commercial stands are well built and reliable. Homemade wooden stands should be constructed of 4x4 or larger pressure-treated lumber and have numerous deeply screwed cross 
braces to protect against warping.You cannot overbuild a stand.Every large tank should be sandwiched on a half inch styrofoam platform to absorb slight unevenness where the tank bottom meets the top of the stand. Every stand should be shimmed to eliminate the slightest unevenness.Finally, leave enough distance between the tank and any walls (4-6 inches) for the dissipation of heat. Keeping a reef tank cool is a difficult problem, and open space can be a great aid to its solution.----- Original Message ----- From: "wm crash" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 3:57 PMSubject: [Killietalk] Tank weight> Hi,>> How can I figure out how heavy of a tank I can safely place in my house ?> The floor I am looking at has carpet without the additional reinforcement> that one would need for tile for example.>> cheers,> wm_crash, the friendly hooligan> AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1> Wilmington, DE>> 
_________________________________________________________________> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page> www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/> Modify your subscription at > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk> ------------------------------Message: 3Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:30:35 -0600From: "Doug Ebeling" Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Planeria (Flat worms) & hair algaeTo: Ed, Thinking about this further, I had a heavily infested tank and movedsome angelfish into it. I now can not find any worms. Do you want me tosend you some angels?Does anybody know what I can put into a tank with angelfish that will eathair algae?Best Regards,Doug EbelingAKA # 07861Spring, Texas USAe-mail: ebeling at charter_net -----Original Message-----From: Doug Ebeling 
[mailto:ebeling at charter_net] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:42 PMTo: 'killietalk at aka_org'Subject: Re: Planeria (Flat worms)>>Ed Brandtis wrote: ...any truth to the fact that he wrote both guppies >>and dwarf gouramis will eat planeria (flat worms)...<<Ed, I have active infestation of planeria in tanks with guppies. My guppiesdon't eat them.Best Regards,Doug EbelingAKA # 07861Spring, Texas USAe-mail: ebeling at charter_net ------------------------------Message: 4Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:31:16 -0500From: "Bill Shenefelt" Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Tank weightTo: "killifish discussion list" Hi Cosmin;First, you need to know what your beams and studs are. 2x10, 2x12 , what span, what centers. The flooring on top of them supports basically nothing but can spread the load a little, but not all that much with typical flooring. Assuming you would place the tank near a wall with under support rather than in mid span, it can obviously take more weight. Along a wal!
 l 
it would either be at the end of a number of joist or run along the length of a pair of joist. If running perpendicular to the direction of the floor joist, the tank length does not really matter. Perpendicular, it does not matter since it gets support from more joist the longer it is. Running along the length may be more stressful especially if it is near midspan of the joist. Figure a 24 inch deep tank 18 inches wide (front to back) would be at least 3 cubic ft per ft of length. That is at least 180 pounds per foot of length. (Actually more with the weight of rocks or sand versus water, maybe 30% more?) Most older construction uses 1 inch centers so a single joist perpendicular to the tank length would be supporting about 270 pounds, not much for a 2 by 12 near the end of its span almost against a beam. (beam should be either steel I beam or 3 2x12 side tacked) but a supporting wall, not a pure separation of rooms wall. If 2 by 10 are used for joist the floor may be a bit 
springy near the center if spans of 12 ft are used (typical) so you might get a little "bounce" at the tank but it should still hold it. Where things get iffy is if the weight is in midspan of the floor understructure like a water bed in the center of a big room. Now the weight per square foot is not much over 100 pounds, but there are a lot of square feet pushing down at midspan. If you have 2 by 12 joist, on 16 inch centers and are putting the tank close to a supporting wall, I would not sweat it. If 2 by 10 were used or 24 inch centers were used as in some new construction, gets a bit more disconcerting. Here is a link to a question about a tub on 24 inch centers using 2x10http://experts.about.com/q/Building-Homes-Extensions-2333/determine-floor-strength-1.htmAnswer is like mine and the weight is a little less (water depth lower but add a 300 pound human and see where it goes). Be cautious unless you have 2 by 12 and 16 inch centersBill 
Shenefelthttp://sheneskillies.com----- Original Message ----- From: "wm crash" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 3:57 PMSubject: [Killietalk] Tank weight> Hi,>> How can I figure out how heavy of a tank I can safely place in my house ?> The floor I am looking at has carpet without the additional reinforcement> that one would need for tile for example.>> cheers,> wm_crash, the friendly hooligan> AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1> Wilmington, DE>> _________________________________________________________________> Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page> www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/> Modify your subscription at > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk> ------------------------------Message: 5Date: Wed, 20 
Dec 2006 17:39:18 ESTFrom: LeeH920226 at aol_comSubject: Re: [Killietalk] Planeria (Flat worms) & hair algaeTo: killietalk at aka_orgIn a message dated 12/20/06 5:33:20 PM, ebeling at charter_net writes:<< Does anybody know what I can put into a tank with angelfish that will eathair algae? >>My Ancistris are slowly getting rid of it. If I siphoned out some of the loosened pieces it would go quicker. Mine is with angelfish as well.Lee HarperMedia PA------------------------------Message: 6Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:46:10 -0800From: "Joel Saunders" Subject: [Killietalk] Fertility in A. bitaeniatum at 3 years of age?To: killietalk at aka_orgHello everyone, I haven't been active on the list in a long time, but about two and a half years ago you all gave me great advice that helped me spawn and raise my first killies: chromaphyosemion bitaeniatum "Majitam". Although finishing school and starting work and family has kept me from doing more than maintaining (barely) my fish over 
the last couple of years, I am now down to my last pair of the Majitams, and I'd like to keep them going. I have recently set the pair up in a five gallon tank with a spawning mop, but I haven't gotten any eggs. These fish were hatched in early 2004, so they are approaching 3 years of age. Is it likely that they are simply too "over the hill" to produce viable eggs? I've been feeding frozen bloodworms and Spectrum pellets. I'm probably going to dig out the brine shrimpery and see if some bbs will ring them into condition._________________________________________________________________Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview------------------------------Message: 7Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:48:07 -0500From: ccarlile at aol_comSubject: Re: [Killietalk] Planeria (Flat worms) & hair algaeTo: killietalk at aka_org'Does anyone what I can 
put in with angelfish to eat hair algae?' Si, Siamese Flying Fox. Make sure es real and no look alike.Rob-----Original Message-----From: ebeling at charter_netTo: killietalk at aka_orgSent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 4:30 PMSubject: Re: [Killietalk] Planeria (Flat worms) & hair algaeEd, Thinking about this further, I had a heavily infested tank and movedsome angelfish into it. I now can not find any worms. Do you want me tosend you some angels?Does anybody know what I can put into a tank with angelfish that will eathair algae?Best Regards,Doug EbelingAKA # 07861Spring, Texas USAe-mail: ebeling at charter_net -----Original Message-----From: Doug Ebeling [mailto:ebeling at charter_net] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:42 PMTo: 'killietalk at aka_org'Subject: Re: Planeria (Flat worms)>>Ed Brandtis wrote: ...any truth to the fact that he wrote both guppies >>and dwarf gouramis will eat planeria (flat worms)...<<Ed, I have active infestation of planeria in tanks with guppies. My 
guppiesdon't eat them.Best Regards,Doug EbelingAKA # 07861Spring, Texas USAe-mail: ebeling at charter_net Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk________________________________________________________________________Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.------------------------------Message: 8Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:51:58 ESTFrom: LeeH920226 at aol_comSubject: Re: [Killietalk] Tank weightTo: killietalk at aka_orgThere has been several detailed analyses of weight per square foot and joist size which are essential to your evaluation. See both Bob Goldstein's and Bill Shenefelt's analyses. In addition to the calculations, I suggest you put a glass of water on a table near where you want the 
tank. Flex your knees significantly. You don't have to jump. If the water has significant ripples and waves, I would think twice about it. Construction materials -- joists and studs are part of it, but construction details (nailing, hangers, etc.) also are important. If you can persuade a couple of people to do the same thing simultaneously, it would be even more telling. Figure that a 200 lb man bouncing up and down is also a good test. When someone asks me if my van can carry a load of firewood, for example, I consider that it is made to carry 7 full grown adults -- that is 1400 lb average.Lee HarperMedia PA------------------------------To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalkEnd of Killietalk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 27******************************************

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