Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 14

["apistomaster at excite_com" <apistomaster at excite_com>]

 I am at once an ancient AKAer and a new member and very new owner of my own computer/laptop.. I was in AKA '68-71,99-2000 and back again. Many of you know me and many of us have sold/traded fish and eggs. Presently my only killies are just hatching from eggs just received from Heber Salvia, Uruguay. Enough of the introduction. I jumped on-line re: Australe's eating their eggs. In the past I've raised and sold around a thousand of them. They are easy to breed in small containers True, but not unless you do check for eggs daily or twice a day if you have that kind of time. I find most problems arise in the pair or trio set up. I have always obtained better production by group spawning, but..only if I separated the sexes and conditioned them well on live foods/frozen blood worms first. Then I put 2 males and 6 females in a 10 gal, for 4-5 days, then remove the breeders. The yarn mops cover the bottom of the tank with none hanging. I feed the breeders only live food while they 
are set up very lightly to avoid bacterial blooms that tend to destroy the eggs. This way I end up with about 75/100 fry all close in age and size. I raise  A. striatum using the same method. One difference in my set up is that I used one those micro water pumps embedded within a sponge as my filter system and kept the water level at no more than 4". The pump outlet water gurggles about a 1/2 above the water level. The idea was to recreate a babbling brook, clean, and well oxgenated enviroment.Nothing profound here. I'm just sharing an experience.Larry Waybright--- On Sat 06/03, < killietalk-request at aka_org > wrote:From: [mailto: killietalk-request at aka_org]To: killietalk at aka_orgDate: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 20:14:40 -0400Subject: Killietalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 14Send Killietalk mailing list submissions tokillietalk at aka_orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visithttp://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalkor, via email, send a message with subject or 
body 'help' tokillietalk-request at aka_orgYou can reach the person managing the list atkillietalk-owner at aka_orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Killietalk digest..."Today's Topics:1. Re: Thanks but No Thanks (Wright Huntley)2. Re: Thanks but No Thanks (BrandtEdL at aol_com)3. Re: Thanks but No Thanks (Gary Elson or Mary Frauley)4. Re: Killie Question (Gary Elson or Mary Frauley)5. Re: Killies in stores (lonlangione at suscom_net)6. Re: Thanks but No Thanks (Ken)7. Re: killies in stores (Kyle Osterholt)8. Re: Mentoring newcomers is great idea. (Kent Hunsuckle)9. Re: Killie Question (Kent Hunsuckle)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 11:56:49 -0700From: Wright Huntley Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Thanks but No ThanksTo: killifish discussion list Mark R wrote:> I'm with Laura - this list is useless for anyone interested in learning more> about killis. Here's a 
suggestion for you AKA big-wigs to ignore: consider> splitting the list into one devoted to killifish and another devoted to the> AKA.I hope a bit of history can clarify this. I'm not a big-wig, but have been around since California was a prairie. :-)Killietalk was set up to take the pressure of AKA-related discussions off another list that had been around for some years (killi.net). The non-AKA folks there were annoyed by discussions about the BOT, etc. It was a wise move, IMO.Unfortunately, the fish discussions also gradually ended up here, as the other list sort of withered away, so what to do? Barry has tried to provide web forums for AKA business, but they will probably never work unless he shuts down killietalk entirely.The Singapore group has killies.com, which is a forums-only (no mail list) discussion group. It works beautifully, but only because of constant moderation by a sizeable staff of volunteer moderators. I fear we wouldn't like that, and would have a 
problem keeping a dedicated staff that would stay on top of their forum every day (and take gas from irate members).I believe the new Dallas group has a forum-based discussion program going, that is open to all. http://www.dallaskillifish.com/forums/At BAKA, we tried to minimize competition with AKA by restricting the mail list to local topics only, usually trying to push folks to killietalk for general fish discussion. Likewise, the BAKA web site has tried to not duplicate functions better served by the AKA.org site.I used to answer the same beginner's questions over and over again. I didn't mind, because I once asked most of them, myself. I also read the questions very carefully, and tried to really understand the context so any answer I may have fits the problem, rather than compounding it.The availability of archives of various lists, the greatly improved beginners guide, and improved internet search engines have all reduced the amount of elementary information apparentl!
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needed on the list. I regret that, because I have always had fun corresponding with and sending fish to newbies.The general decline in good solid husbandry information on killietalk is, I think, just a symptom of our difficulty in adapting to the changes in the media available to us.Since we have been advised of the need, I have confidence that some of the smart folks here will find a way to improve the situation for the newer folks and help restore the interactions some of us old f*rts enjoy so much. I'm willing to help, but don't have any bright ideas at the moment.Wright-- Wright Huntley - Rt. 001 Box K36, Bishop CA 93514 - whuntley at verizon_net 760 937-2276 (cell) 760 874-2000 (CA) or 941 866-0500 (FL)."There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept."Ansel Adamshttp://www.self-gov.org/wspq.html------------------------------Message: 2Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:01:29 EDTFrom: BrandtEdL at aol_comSubject: Re: [Killietalk] Thanks but No ThanksTo: 
killietalk at aka_orgNicely said Wright. Ed Brandt------------------------------Message: 3Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:24:22 -0400From: Gary Elson or Mary Frauley Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Thanks but No ThanksTo: killifish discussion list I'm with Laura - this list is useless for anyone interested in learning moreabout killis. Here's a suggestion for you AKA big-wigs to ignore: considersplitting the list into one devoted to killifish and another devoted to theAKA.I can see your point of view, and not. On any list, strange things break outfrom time to time. What's happening here is not from the AKA, it's just acouple of members of the list who periodically seem to want to readthemselves. If we split the list, then they'll squabble on two lists. It'sindividuals, and I have never seen anything in the AKA that suggests it'sthe organization. The AKA is a fairly tolerant bunch, and we get theseflare-ups on the list from time to time.The only lists I've seen that weren't like this are th!
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heavily moderatedones where attempts to be "off-topic list trolls" are squashed. The AKAhasn't taken that direction yet. We have tended to operate as our ownmoderators, and individually delete annoying and inappropriate threads. Itwould be interesting to see how other killie lists in other languagesoperate as far as moderation and respecting guidelines go.It is curious that we can get way more traffic by saying "John Doe is anerd" or "The Board of Trustees have weapons of mass destruction" than weget by asking "Were there cameronense in the fish sales room at theconvention" or "how can I breed my australe". I have always wondered aboutthat.Still, stick around - ignore the talk-radio rants and ask pertinentquestions. You can learn a lot on this list, but you have to push.Gary------------------------------Message: 4Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:27:10 -0400From: Gary Elson or Mary Frauley Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Killie QuestionTo: killifish discussion list I have a pair of A. 
australe orange variety. In akritter keeperaquarium packed with java moss. I feed live food -white worms. Idon't get any eggs to hatch. Is it unreasonable tobelieve that theywould spawn and the eggs hatch in such an environment?BobBob,It's not unreasonable, but it has never worked for me. A australe arepresented as easy breeders, but that's often untrue. I have never bred them,in 15 years of killie keeping. Meanwhile, other killies that are supposed tobe difficult breed easily here in 4 gallon planted tanks. And there arebound to be people on the list who succeed with set-ups like yours.It's not a great answer, but sometimes in a reasonable set-up, you have apair of fish that just don't respond. I have some species in several tanks.One pair will eat their eggs while another will allow fry to grow toadulthood in with them. I have this with some wild-caught Aphyosemions I'vebeen keeping multiple pairs of. If the pair that eats its young was the onlyone I had, I'd be very 
frustrated with them.Gary------------------------------Message: 5Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:27:50 -0400From: Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Killies in storesTo: killifish discussion list My point here Larry is that the AKA is the only real source for killifish besides aquabid. We are supplying fish to stores but they still are not as plentiful as other fish. I have owned a fish shop and I currently work part-time at one. Most people know what tetras, cichlids, catfish etc are, but they do not know what killies are. I was in one of the shops in Maryland that you sell killies to a few months ago. Being in the area I was in I knew that the fish were coming from a local breeder.It is our job as killifish keepers to educate. And I think the majority of us are doing a great job of it.LonnyOn Sat, 3 Jun 2006 14:28:56 EDTBizEcology at aol_com wrote:> Lonny Langione writes:> > You go into any LFS or big box store> and you will find 20 species of cichlids, 20 types of 
>livebearers, all types> of rainbow fish, scads of tetras, lots of catfish but >rarely any killifish.> It is up to us to educate people about killies.> > A big reason that you will not find killlies in the >stores is that most > killies demonstrate one or more of the following >characteristics:> > 1. They cannot be easily collected in quantities large >enough to interest > wholesale distributors.> > 2. They cannot be bred in quantities large and at a >cost low enough to > interest wholesale distributors.> > In addition to the above, many killies prefer a >temperature lower than that > found in many stores. > > That being said, I have sold hundreds of killies to a >number of stores in my > local area and the stores have sold them at a good >profit. So support your > small, private stores, because you sure aren't going to >supply ****mart or > ***co and they wouldn't know what to do with the!
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>anyway.> > > Join the AKA at >http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/> Modify your subscription at >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk------------------------------Message: 6Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:36:34 -0400From: "Ken" Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Thanks but No ThanksTo: "'killifish discussion list'" List apologies ...My last post was supposed to be private; I keepthinking my exile is still in effect (someone please fix that for me )Anyway; now that I'm out....A valid question is:Is this mail-list simply an information repository/exchange and as such hasa narrower level of expectation to the passive subscriber w/o any further"Input/Output" on their behalf? (i.e. List scope is restricted tobiological/husbandry related material)OR Is this a "community centric" forum and therefore subject to a broader rangeof blog/opinion & experience and greatly "input/output" 
dependent? (i.e.scope broadened to "hobby related" as opposed to strictly biologicallyrelated)That's a open question, something to think about...not a rant...esp in lightof & compared to alternate "cyberspace" venues (blogs, forums, et)...(now I'll go back into the hole from whence I came)KC------------------------------Message: 7Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:27:10 -0700 (PDT)From: Kyle Osterholt Subject: Re: [Killietalk] killies in storesTo: killietalk at aka_orgactually, I've seen several LFS's wholesale lists and there are always killies on the list. Epiplatys, ps.annulatus, lampeyes, aphyosemion's and aplocheilus are common on lists. The trouble lies with the same old myth that keeps rolling around... "killies are annuals, they don't live more than a year". I hear this over, and over, and over, and over wherever I go. I don't understand how this mindset can be changed. I've seen numerous magazine articles covering this myth as well as articles in chainstore catalogs.. Most 
anyone in a larger club of some sort knows the truth but getting the public to understand this is where the challenge lies.. Kyle in OklahomaKyle Osterholt__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------Message: 8Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 19:01:46 -0500From: "Kent Hunsuckle" Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Mentoring newcomers is great idea.To: "'killifish discussion list'" I think it would be great if the affiliate clubs were involved, BUT, I don'tthink all of them are being contacted, or there just haven't been any newmembers in our area.Kent HunsuckleDallas Killifish AssociationPresident-----Original Message-----From: killietalk-bounces+killitalk=xolesfishies_com at aka.org[mailto:killietalk-bounces+killitalk=xolesfishies_com at aka.org] On Behalf OfL. LangioneSent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:44 AMTo: killifish discussion listSubject: Re: [Killietalk] Mentoring 
newcomers is great idea.Harry,Jim Randall already sends the info to affiliate clubs. But many ofthe new members do not have an affiliate club near them. Jim also has beenputting new members names in the BNL as well. But your idea of having newmembers paired up with someone like this is exactly what I am talking about.Thanks, Lonny----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Specht" To: "killifish discussion list" Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:50 AMSubject: [Killietalk] Mentoring newcomers is great idea.> Good idea, Lonny. It was tried many years ago, but never reallyimplemented> for some reason. After all, having an experienced person discuss and advise> a newcomer would be most helpful to prevent disappointment over losing new> killifish. Truly, the whole premise of the AKA was to bring together folks> interested in killifish to learn from one another and exchange these> wonderful fish.>> I would suggest, Lonny, you conosider sending the info on a 
newcomer to an> affiliate club in his area -- or as close as possible. Permit theaffiliate> club president recommend a member to act as mentor as he knows his (or> her) club members.. A letter or note to affilaite clubs for their input> about this scheme is in order before trying this system At any rate,> remember the KISS priniciple. It works>>> Harry Specht>> Sarasota, FL>>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/> Modify your subscription athttp://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk>Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/Modify your subscription athttp://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk------------------------------Message: 9Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 19:14:35 -0500From: "Kent Hunsuckle" Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Killie QuestionTo: "'killifish 
discussion list'" Hi,It has been my experience that A. australe are very willing to eat the eggs.When I am ready to raise some I use the mop method and check the mop Daileyfor best results in collecting eggs. Now, this is not the only way. I didend up with a couple of fry in a 20 gallon planted tank (totally by accidenton my part). For me, it only worked once, but I know of others who have beenquite successful in planted tanks.Kent Hunsuckle------------------------------To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalkEnd of Killietalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 14******************************************

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