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[Killietalk] Thanks but No Thanks
I have just asked to be unsubscribed from this list. I joined the AKA and
subscribed to killietalk to learn about killifish in hopes that I could
responsibly start a killi tank. In the emails I've bothered to peruse, I've
read nothing but political garbage and rantings about a conference. How
educational.
Fortunately, I did receive the AKA handbook for beginners, so all is not
lost. I just wanted to share a newcomers take on the helpfulness and
welcoming feeling of your group. I will no longer receive these messages, no
replies back to me will probably not be transmitted.
Laura in Florida
-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces+fsulawlb=comcast_net at aka.org
[mailto:killietalk-bounces+fsulawlb=comcast_net at aka.org] On Behalf Of
killietalk-request at aka_org
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:49 AM
To: killietalk at aka_org
Subject: Killietalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 8
Send Killietalk mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Killietalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: 1st Conventioneer's (fishscatterer at comcast_net)
2. Re: 1st Conventioneer's (Mark R)
3. Why new members leave and an idea for new members (L. Langione)
4. June ARK Meeting (Allan Semeit)
5. Mentoring newcomers is great idea. (Harry Specht)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2006 04:44:28 +0000
From: fishscatterer at comcast_net
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
You are right, Erny, many people are missing the point. Why is a person
long KNOWN for his arrogance and many rude/curt reponses here on Killietalk
is elected to our BOT? (not for me to name him, Erny can tell you, though
most of you can figure out who it is). Maybe this person would have the
decency to apologize for his inappropriate behavior and remarks to one of
our AKA members, but from all I've heard from other members and a few of
his responses to people here on Killietalk, I doubt it. We had 2 BOT
members resign within a short period of time of each other, you have to
wonder if they felt "pushed" off the BOT. Hard to know, still some good
members serving on the BOT despite one who probably should not be
serving--great killie knowledge but lacking in skill dealing with membership
in an appropriate manner.
Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention, Erny, hopefully more
people will understand what you are getting at.
Jim Hinkle
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Erny" <emay1 at wi_rr.com>
> I'm not sure where some of the responses are coming from.
> The situation has nothing to do with being impatient to get the
> JAKA; it has nothing to do with the volunteer efforts of the BOT
> and other people; has nothing to do with "picking a fight" or
> "broadcasting insults"; it has to do with an inappropriate response
> and insult by a BOT member in response to a question addressed
> to the editor of JAKA. If you would like I can send you all of the
> e-mail. It really makes no difference; I'm simply waiting for this BOT
> member to make good on his offer to buy me out.
>
> EM
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Bulterman" <jbulterman at yahoo_com>
> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
>
>
> >I learned two important things from my training as an auditor in public
> > accounting: 1. know what to hold on to and what to let go of (evidence).
> > 2. To get the right answers I need to talk to the right
people.
> >
> > There are 9 members of the BOT including the Chairman. If one person
> > upsets
> > you consider perhaps trying another person. I believe you have my
e-mail
> > address?
> >
> > JoeB
> >
> > --- Erny <emay1 at wi_rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> There also were some personal issues that the editor, Mr. Ostrow needed
> >> to attend to. He informed me of this, I expressed my appreciation and
> >> suggested
> >> that keeping the membership informed would be appreciated. Shortly
after
> >> that
> >> I received my disease designation and offer of buyout from a BOT
member.
> >> The moral of the incident is, don't ask questions.
> >>
> >> EM
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joe Bulterman" <jbulterman at yahoo_com>
> >> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:32 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
> >>
> >>
> >> > My understanding of the delay in the JAKA was that there was a
> >> > personnel
> >> > change/addition to the JAKA staff and there is another change
currently
> >> > in
> >> > the
> >> > works. Hopefully this change won't affect the timing of future
JAKA's.
> >> > Over the years I have been involved in many a heated debate involving
> >> > issues,
> >> > real or imagined, affecting the AKA. Now that I live overseas and am
> >> > distant
> >> > from many of those prior thoughts, I think I have calmed down a
little
> >> > and
> >> > I
> >> > can see the big picture a little more clearly - or so it appears.
> >> > Anyone can e-mail me as to the current workings of the BOT and I will
> >> > answer
> >> > honestly to the best of my understanding. Personally, I tend to
error
> >> > on
> >> > too
> >> > much transparancy.
> >> >
> >> > JoeB
> >> >
> >> > --- Erny <emay1 at wi_rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> That is the offer I received from a BOT member after
> >> >> I had asked the editor why JAKA was running two
> >> >> issues behind. All you have to do is question something
> >> >> and you receive a disease designation and an offer to
> >> >> be bought out. Try it; see if it works for you
> >> >> EM
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Tom Payne" <paynedds at earthlink_net>
> >> >> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 4:50 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > "send you a check from my personal account to make a cancer
> >> >> > like you go away".
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Huh? What am I missing here?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Tom Payne
> >> >> > 10100 Hoover Woods Rd.
> >> >> > Galena, Ohio 43021
> >> >> > 740-965-9311
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
> >> >> > matter."
> >> >> > --Martin Luther King, Jr.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Join the AKA at
> >> >> > http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >> >> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >> >> > Modify your subscription at
> >> >> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Join the AKA at
http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >> >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >> >> Modify your subscription at
> >> >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Joe Bulterman, CPA/CELTA
> >> > Raffles-H.U. International College
> >> > No 2 Teaching Bldg, 3rd Floor, Huizhou University
> >> > Jinshan Lake Campus, Mazhuang, Huizhou City
> >> > Guangdong Province, CHINA 516000
> >> > +86 1341 453 9710 (Mobil)
> >> > +86 752 252 9498 (office)
> >> > Join the AKA at
http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >> > Modify your subscription at
> >> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >> Modify your subscription at
> >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >>
> >
> >
> > Joe Bulterman, CPA/CELTA
> > Raffles-H.U. International College
> > No 2 Teaching Bldg, 3rd Floor, Huizhou University
> > Jinshan Lake Campus, Mazhuang, Huizhou City
> > Guangdong Province, CHINA 516000
> > +86 1341 453 9710 (Mobil)
> > +86 752 252 9498 (office)
> > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > Modify your subscription at
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >
>
>
> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 23:02:30 -0600
From: "Mark R" <oldsan at gmail_com>
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
C'mon guys, it's all about the fish.
On 6/2/06, fishscatterer at comcast_net <fishscatterer at comcast_net> wrote:
>
> You are right, Erny, many people are missing the point. Why is a person
> long KNOWN for his arrogance and many rude/curt reponses here on
Killietalk
> is elected to our BOT? (not for me to name him, Erny can tell you, though
> most of you can figure out who it is). Maybe this person would have the
> decency to apologize for his inappropriate behavior and remarks to one of
> our AKA members, but from all I've heard from other members and a few of
> his responses to people here on Killietalk, I doubt it. We had 2 BOT
> members resign within a short period of time of each other, you have to
> wonder if they felt "pushed" off the BOT. Hard to know, still some good
> members serving on the BOT despite one who probably should not be
> serving--great killie knowledge but lacking in skill dealing with
membership
> in an appropriate manner.
>
> Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention, Erny, hopefully more
> people will understand what you are getting at.
>
> Jim Hinkle
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Erny" <emay1 at wi_rr.com>
> > I'm not sure where some of the responses are coming from.
> > The situation has nothing to do with being impatient to get the
> > JAKA; it has nothing to do with the volunteer efforts of the BOT
> > and other people; has nothing to do with "picking a fight" or
> > "broadcasting insults"; it has to do with an inappropriate response
> > and insult by a BOT member in response to a question addressed
> > to the editor of JAKA. If you would like I can send you all of the
> > e-mail. It really makes no difference; I'm simply waiting for this BOT
> > member to make good on his offer to buy me out.
> >
> > EM
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Bulterman" <jbulterman at yahoo_com>
> > To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 11:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
> >
> >
> > >I learned two important things from my training as an auditor in public
> > > accounting: 1. know what to hold on to and what to let go of
> (evidence).
> > > 2. To get the right answers I need to talk to the right
> people.
> > >
> > > There are 9 members of the BOT including the Chairman. If one person
> > > upsets
> > > you consider perhaps trying another person. I believe you have my
> e-mail
> > > address?
> > >
> > > JoeB
> > >
> > > --- Erny <emay1 at wi_rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> There also were some personal issues that the editor, Mr. Ostrow
> needed
> > >> to attend to. He informed me of this, I expressed my appreciation and
> > >> suggested
> > >> that keeping the membership informed would be appreciated. Shortly
> after
> > >> that
> > >> I received my disease designation and offer of buyout from a BOT
> member.
> > >> The moral of the incident is, don't ask questions.
> > >>
> > >> EM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Joe Bulterman" <jbulterman at yahoo_com>
> > >> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:32 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > My understanding of the delay in the JAKA was that there was a
> > >> > personnel
> > >> > change/addition to the JAKA staff and there is another change
> currently
> > >> > in
> > >> > the
> > >> > works. Hopefully this change won't affect the timing of future
> JAKA's.
> > >> > Over the years I have been involved in many a heated debate
> involving
> > >> > issues,
> > >> > real or imagined, affecting the AKA. Now that I live overseas and
> am
> > >> > distant
> > >> > from many of those prior thoughts, I think I have calmed down a
> little
> > >> > and
> > >> > I
> > >> > can see the big picture a little more clearly - or so it appears.
> > >> > Anyone can e-mail me as to the current workings of the BOT and I
> will
> > >> > answer
> > >> > honestly to the best of my understanding. Personally, I tend to
> error
> > >> > on
> > >> > too
> > >> > much transparancy.
> > >> >
> > >> > JoeB
> > >> >
> > >> > --- Erny <emay1 at wi_rr.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> That is the offer I received from a BOT member after
> > >> >> I had asked the editor why JAKA was running two
> > >> >> issues behind. All you have to do is question something
> > >> >> and you receive a disease designation and an offer to
> > >> >> be bought out. Try it; see if it works for you
> > >> >> EM
> > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> From: "Tom Payne" <paynedds at earthlink_net>
> > >> >> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 4:50 PM
> > >> >> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] 1st Conventioneer's
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > "send you a check from my personal account to make a cancer
> > >> >> > like you go away".
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Huh? What am I missing here?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Tom Payne
> > >> >> > 10100 Hoover Woods Rd.
> > >> >> > Galena, Ohio 43021
> > >> >> > 740-965-9311
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
> that
> > >> >> > matter."
> > >> >> > --Martin Luther King, Jr.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Join the AKA at
> > >> >> > http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > >> >> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > >> >> > Modify your subscription at
> > >> >> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Join the AKA at
> http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > >> >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > >> >> Modify your subscription at
> > >> >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Joe Bulterman, CPA/CELTA
> > >> > Raffles-H.U. International College
> > >> > No 2 Teaching Bldg, 3rd Floor, Huizhou University
> > >> > Jinshan Lake Campus, Mazhuang, Huizhou City
> > >> > Guangdong Province, CHINA 516000
> > >> > +86 1341 453 9710 (Mobil)
> > >> > +86 752 252 9498 (office)
> > >> > Join the AKA at
> http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > >> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > >> > Modify your subscription at
> > >> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9
> .
> > >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > >> Modify your subscription at
> > >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe Bulterman, CPA/CELTA
> > > Raffles-H.U. International College
> > > No 2 Teaching Bldg, 3rd Floor, Huizhou University
> > > Jinshan Lake Campus, Mazhuang, Huizhou City
> > > Guangdong Province, CHINA 516000
> > > +86 1341 453 9710 (Mobil)
> > > +86 752 252 9498 (office)
> > > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > > Modify your subscription at
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >
> >
> >
> > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > Modify your subscription at
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>
> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 02:05:37 -0400
From: "L. Langione" <lonlangione at suscom_net>
Subject: [Killietalk] Why new members leave and an idea for new
members
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Hello,
I have been following the talk concerning the turn-over of new
members and the size of the AKA membership. As membership chairman, I really
do not think we have a serious problem with the size of the membership. We
basically have the same amount of members as the ACA. And by the way folks,
the ACA does not have or publish a roster. As for turn over, you will always
have attrition with any group. I have been doing this job for almost a year,
and here are some reasons people have given me for dropping out of the AKA.
These were from e-mails that I sent to people who did not re-join. They went
back to school, got divorced, thought they would make this their hobby but
realized they didn't have the time needed, some died, moved and sold
everything they had, joined to get killifish and were not able to find what
they wanted, just got tired of their fish, went into saltwater instead of
freshwater, some were battling illness, went back into cichlids, decided to
down size, decided to breed dogs instead and I have to spend more time with
my family. Only one negative response and it was he joined a local affiliate
club and couldn't see spending $26.00 a year to belong to the AKA anymore. I
really think there is entirely to much emphasis on playing the blame game
and attacking certain people for something that really is not a huge
problem.
One of the biggest reasons I have heard from people in the past year
for joining is, "I used to belong to the AKA many years ago, and now that my
kids are grown I am going to get back into killies." This is a huge trend,
people coming back. For the past several years, the freshwater hobby has
been in a slump. We are starting to see a come back in the hobby.
One of the suggestions I made to be discussed at the convention,( I
could not attend this year), was to come up with a group of experienced
killifish keepers to mentor new members. There are a lot of "old timers" and
"experienced youngins" out there who could be on this committee. Call it the
AKA" Welcoming Committee" As I enter new members, I could forward their
e-mail address to the committee and they could e-mail the new member and
answer their questions. And don't give me this crap that that's what
killitalk is for. I'm talking about a one on one type of contact. New
members are sometimes apprehensive to ask questions because they are afraid
of looking stupid. But on a one to one basis they would not feel as
intimidated.
I am really tired of all this finger pointing and trash talking. It
is about the fish AND the people. The fish we keep are more exclusive than
and other type of fish in the hobby. You go into any LFS or big box store
and you will find 20 species of cichlids, 20 types of livebearers, all types
of rainbow fish, scads of tetras, lots of catfish but rarely any killifish.
It is up to us to educate people about killies.
This is a good organization and I say we can make it better. But
this crap of arguing does not solve any problems.Let's see if the e-mail
promotes a more positive approach to this whole situation. In closing I
nominate Erny May, Harry Specht and Curt Smith to be part of the Welcoming
Committee.
Lonny Langione - AKA Membership Chairman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Smith" <cskillies at hotmail_com>
To: <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: [Killietalk] greeting group
> I think there's a lot of merit in Lee's suggestion. I, for one, would
> gladly volunteer to greet and steer first time attendees. Such members
> could work in conjuntion with the registration table and meet "first-time"
> attendees when they register. Once they are introduced and on speaking
> terms with several members, the greeters couyld return to the registration
> table to pick up another first-timer.
>
> I think there may be merit in reserving a space or two at each banquet
table
> for these members as well.
>
> By the way, I observed Dr. Specht on Friday taking the time to speak at
> length with each person that registered. And, they did have special
> markings on their name tag. You can't blame Christina for not
introducing
> them to others as she was a first-time attendee too and didn't know we
> rogues until later. The Florida group had their act together as the
> pre-registered members had their bags of materials lined up, even with the
> numbered auction plate inside. I think I did offend Christina by calling
> her the "bag lady", but it was all in fun pretty lady and no harm
intended!
>
> I especially sought out Lisa as I knew she was coming and I also knew this
> was her first time. Hopefully I introduced her to all the right people
and
> even ate breakfast with her once. By the way, I still owe her a cup of
> coffee! I looked for Loraine but never saw her.
>
> Curt Smith
>
>
> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at
http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 06:08:30 -0700
From: "Allan Semeit" <azkillie at cox_net>
Subject: [Killietalk] June ARK Meeting
To: "AKA KillieTalk" <KillieTalk at AKA_Org>
The June meeting of the Arizona Rivulin Keepers will be on Saturday, June
10th. We will gather at LaBella's Pizza and Pasta (NW corner of Rural and
Ray Roads) in south Tempe about 6:30 PM. The meeting is free and, if you
are in the area, we would welcome the opportunity to greet you.
The first half hour is a time to set up, socialize, and munch on Italian
food (at your cost). We will follow that with a short business meeting (if
needed), a raffle featuring an assortment of products from several
manufacturers, a video program about killies, and then our Trade Table.
This month we will supplement the Trade Table with a variety of killies
purchased by the club at the AKA Convention. All attendees are encouraged
to bring their killies, other unusual small fish, aquatic plants, live food
cultures, etc. for the Trade Table.
If you can attend, we'll see you next Saturday!
Allan from Arizona
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 09:50:32 -0400
From: "Harry Specht" <aus62 at comcast_net>
Subject: [Killietalk] Mentoring newcomers is great idea.
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Good idea, Lonny. It was tried many years ago, but never really implemented
for some reason. After all, having an experienced person discuss and a dvise
a newcomer would be most helpful to prevent disappointment over losing new
killifish. Truly, the whole premise of the AKA was to bring together folks
interested in killifish to learn from one another and exchange these
wonderful fish.
I would suggest, Lonny, you conosider sending the info on a newcomer to an
affiliate club in his area -- or as close as possible. Permit the affiliate
club president recommend a member to act as mentor as he knows his (or
her) club members.. A letter or note to affilaite clubs for their input
about this scheme is in order before trying this system At any rate,
remember the KISS priniciple. It works
Harry Specht
Sarasota, FL
------------------------------
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End of Killietalk Digest, Vol 35, Issue 8
*****************************************
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