[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
[Killietalk] eliminate Hydra?

To: killietalk at aka_org
Subject: [Killietalk] eliminate Hydra?
From: "The Harrison's" <csharrison at inkmaker_net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:54:27 -0600
In-reply-to: <mailman.22749.1140789645.15042.killietalk@aka.org>
List-archive: <http://www.actwin.com/pipermail/killietalk>
List-help: <mailto:killietalk-request@aka.org?subject=help>
List-id: killifish discussion list <killietalk.aka.org>
List-post: <mailto:killietalk@aka.org>
List-subscribe: <http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk>, <mailto:killietalk-request@aka.org?subject=subscribe>
List-unsubscribe: <http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk>, <mailto:killietalk-request@aka.org?subject=unsubscribe>
References: <mailman.22749.1140789645.15042.killietalk@aka.org>
Hydra have sorta become a hobby for me . . .


Delivered-To: inkmkrco-charles at inkmkr_com
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:22:34 -0600
To: charles at inkmkr_com
From: "Charles H Harrison, Ph D" <charles at inkmkr_com>
Subject: Fwd: Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
X-ELNK-Trace: 
d779639ca214542f7c4c86d0c59f5edc9ef193a6bfc3dd48db6affe06c122963bd08d642b6ed149c3b5efdd33357ec02350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
X-Originating-IP: 68.184.209.82

>>>>>>>>Delivered-To: inkmkrco-charles at inkmkr_com
>>>>>>>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:21:32 -0600
>>>>>>>>To: charles at inkmkr_com
>>>>>>>>From: Charles & Sue Harrison <csharrison at inkmaker_net>
>>>>>>>>Subject: Fwd: Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
>>>>>>>>X-ELNK-Trace: 
>>>>>>>>d779639ca214542f7c4c86d0c59f5edc9ef193a6bfc3dd48db6affe06c12296325f3b86f2d8b794327b02ac19e33883a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk


	GOSH I WISH YOU GUYS WOULd TRIM YOUR POSTS!

I have searched my records for purchases of Brine Shrimp Cysts for 
the past 6 years and have come up with a figure of just over 35 cans 
of the eggs. Since I treated my tanks with Flubendazole - some 6 
years ago I have not had one hydra appear in any tank I regularly 
feed BBS to except for one I added plants to over the fall. I simply 
added one Fluke tab to the filter of the 55 Gal tank and have had 
Zero Hydra since then.

Those 35 cans have come from the west coast, Russia and Utah. If 
Hydra came from Cysts,  . . . .  well the numbers speak for 
themselves.



Gosh I wish you guys would trim your posts

Charles Harrison

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>  >>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>  >>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>
>X-Originating-IP: 68.184.209.82
>
>>Delivered-To: inkmaker-csharrison at inkmaker_net
>>From: killietalk-request at aka_org
>>Subject: Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
>>To: killietalk at aka_org
>>Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 04:06:30 -0500
>>X-BeenThere: killietalk at aka_org
>>List-Id: killifish discussion list <killietalk.aka.org>
>>List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk>,
>>	<mailto:killietalk-request at aka_org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>List-Archive: <http://www.actwin.com/pipermail/killietalk>
>>List-Post: <mailto:killietalk at aka_org>
>>List-Help: <mailto:killietalk-request at aka_org?subject=help>
>>List-Subscribe: <http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk>,
>>	<mailto:killietalk-request at aka_org?subject=subscribe>
>>Sender: killietalk-bounces+csharrison=inkmaker_net at aka.org
>>X-Virus-Status: Clean
>>
>>Send Killietalk mailing list submissions to
>>	killietalk at aka_org
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>	http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk
>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>	killietalk-request at aka_org
>>
>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>	killietalk-owner at aka_org
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of Killietalk digest..."
>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (Scott Douglass)
>>    2. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia price
>>       comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia) (Barry Cooper)
>>    3. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia	price
>>       comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia) (Markus Brown)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:33:20 +0800
>>From: "Scott Douglass" <scottdouglass2000 at yahoo_com.au>
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>To: "'killifish discussion list'" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>
>>On this Hydra thing, the hydra love soft newly hatched brine shrimp. They
>>are also fresh water species, so the chance of them coming in on brine
>>shrimp cysts is virtually zero.
>>Marine Hydroids though related are different beasts altogether.
>>I would take a safe bet that they are coming in with Daphnia, Moina and then
>>blooming when there is enough food around in the tank.
>>Daphnia are not a good prey for Hydra due to the carapace (shell) on them,
>>but they will both enjoy the same foods, protests, ciliates etc. So it is
>>easy for them to be around.
>>Hydra can also reproduce asexually, so it is not a good idea to simply wipe
>>them off, which can be like cloning hundreds of them as they break up.
>>If there is hydra in a tank, then simply don't feed for a day or two and
>>they will go away. For fry tip the tray into a new clean one, most of the
>>hydra will stay stuck to the walls of the old tray.
>>Unfortunately when feeding lots of live foods like killie keepers do, there
>>will always be some unwanted stowaways. It is easier to live with it and
>>manage it rather than going for napalm style solutions.
>>
>>One other thing if your BBS go fast in your tanks, look closely at the glass
>>and chances are you will see some fat hydra.
>>
>>Scott,
>>Singapore.
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: killietalk-bounces+scottdouglass2000=yahoo_com.au at aka.org
>>[mailto:killietalk-bounces+scottdouglass2000=yahoo_com.au at aka.org] On Behalf
>>Of Richard Pierce
>>Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 2:12 PM
>>To: killifish discussion list
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>
>>Hi Markus, no flames, just some additional observations:
>>
>>I thought the same as you at one time.  I worked in a public aquarium and
>>marine hydroids were a major nuisance in jelyfish exhibits which were fed
>>BBS.  The people there also thought that the hydroids came in on the cysts
>>since all our seawater was artificial. Also, like you, I was getting hydra
>>outbreaks in tanks in my fishroom, and would even get hydra in shoeboxes fed
>>BBS.
>>
>>When I was able to get some Flubendazole, I used it to eradicate hydra from
>>the tanks in which they appeared.  This was probably 2 years ago and I
>>haven't seen a hydra since then.  If the hydra were coming in on the cysts,
>>I should have gotten re-infestations in this time.  I don't believe that any
>>non-chemical means can totally eradicate hydra.  I was sterilizing
>>everything with cheap vodka and the hydra would still re-appear.  Obviously
>>I couldn't treat the water, plants or fish this way, and I question its
>>effectiveness on sponge filters and gravel.  You need to treat everything:
>>tanks, plants, gravel, mops, filters, water and fish all simultaneously.  It
>>only takes a few cells for the hydra to regenerate and repopulate.  BBS are
>>just the perfect food for hydra and they grow from an invisible, relict
>>population to a bloom very quickly when excess BBS is available.  I also
>>noticed that tanks which received enough light to stimulate algae growth
>>would be populated by green hydra while the remaining tanks would have the
>>white hydra.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>Rich Pierce
>>North Attleboro, MA
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
>>Behalf Of Markus Brown
>>Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:29 AM
>>To: killifish discussion list
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>(wasRe:Artemiaprice comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>
>>Ok.
>>
>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom of
>>hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>
>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece of
>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify some
>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was recorded
>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>
>>
>>Markus
>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>truth".
>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>underwear!!"
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>>  Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>  brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>  discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>  lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>  attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>  personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>
>>>  Barry
>>>
>>>  Barry J. Cooper
>>>  Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Markus Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gerry
>>>>
>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine shrimp
>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no bbs.
>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added to
>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>feeding,
>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>
>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To begin
>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter bed.
>>>>My
>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>  >>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>  >>with
>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the un-hatched
>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating the
>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>
>>>>Markus
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>fish
>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed baby
>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more thing
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>same
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions and
>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't hatch
>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>  >>
>>>  Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>  Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>  Modify your subscription at
>>  > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>
>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>
>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 2
>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:47:59 -0800
>>From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>	(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>
>>Trouble is, Markus, at least in my opinion, you haven't eliminated the
>>the most likely reason, which most people accept, and that is that live
>>bbs make wonderful food for hydra. I suspect you have them in your tanks
>>at very low levels and those that are fed live bbs get a bloom. You can
>>test this, perhaps, by feeding some tanks with bbs hatched after
>>decapsulating, others with regular bs.
>>
>>I could counteract you observation by saying that I feed lots of bbs and
>>I never see hydra. If they come in on the cysts, why would that be?
>>
>>Barry
>>
>>Barry J. Cooper
>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>
>>
>>
>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>
>>>Ok.
>>>
>>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom of
>>  >hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>>
>>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece of
>>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify some
>>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was recorded
>>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>>
>>>
>>>Markus
>>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>>truth".
>>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>>underwear!!"
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>>brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>>discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>>lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>>attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>>personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>>
>>>>Barry
>>>>
>>>>Barry J. Cooper
>>>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine shrimp
>>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no bbs.
>>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added to
>>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>>feeding,
>>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To begin
>>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>  >>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter bed.
>>>>>My
>>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>  >>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>>>with
>>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>>thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the un-hatched
>>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating the
>>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>>
>>>>>Markus
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed baby
>>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more thing
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions and
>>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't hatch
>>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>  >>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>  >>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>>
>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>Modify your subscription at 
>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:06:14 -0800
>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>	(wasRe:Artemia	price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>
>>So, perhaps there is something particular that the Hydra like in newly
>>hatched bbs and not Moina, daphnia, copepods and grindal worms and some
>>chopped black worms? I cannot argue, what I don't experience in this
>>situation. I agree, it is unusual that hydra have not made an appearance in
>>your tanks Barry, but then again, this hobby is loaded with hard to explain
>>phenomenon i.e: bacterial crashes, disease frequency on healthy fish and ,
>>lest not forget belly sliding??? There are many theories, all containing
>>some fact, but singly weak, but as a whole, there is a pattern.
>>
>>My point is that unless the hydra get a particular protein or mineral that
>>they do not get from other foods, then it is unreasonable to believe that
>>they would only flourish from one food. If these are truly fresh water
>>species, they would feed primarily on copepods. I have several species of
>>these fluttering about my system, but alas, as I stated, only the tanks I
>>feed brine shrimp babies, bloom the hydra.
>>
>>I agree though. Seems like my theory is blasted;)
>>
>>Thank you everyone who argued my question thoroughly!
>>
>>Markus
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>>  Trouble is, Markus, at least in my opinion, you haven't eliminated the
>>>  the most likely reason, which most people accept, and that is that live
>>>  bbs make wonderful food for hydra. I suspect you have them in your tanks
>>>  at very low levels and those that are fed live bbs get a bloom. You can
>>>  test this, perhaps, by feeding some tanks with bbs hatched after
>>>  decapsulating, others with regular bs.
>>>
>>>  I could counteract you observation by saying that I feed lots of bbs and
>>>  I never see hydra. If they come in on the cysts, why would that be?
>>>
>>>  Barry
>>>
>>>  Barry J. Cooper
>>>  Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Markus Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ok.
>>>>
>>>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom
>>>>of
>>>>hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>>>
>>>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece
>>  >>of
>>>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify
>>>>some
>>>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>  >>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was
>>>>recorded
>>>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Markus
>>>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>>>truth".
>>>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>>>underwear!!"
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>>>brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>>>discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>>>lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>>>attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>>>personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Barry
>>>>>
>>>>>Barry J. Cooper
>>>>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine
>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no
>>>>>>bbs.
>>>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>>>feeding,
>>>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To
>>>>>>begin
>>>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter
>>>>>>bed.
>>>>>>My
>>>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>>>>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>>>thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the
>>>>>>un-hatched
>>>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed
>>>>>>>>baby
>>>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more
>>  >>>>>>thing
>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>  >>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't
>>>>>>>>>hatch
>>>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>  Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>  Modify your subscription at
>>>  http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>To join the AKA see http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at 
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>End of Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
>>******************************************
>
>
>--
>Charles & Sue Harrison
>http://www.InkForYourPrinter.com
>Toll free 1-866-677-1900
>
>Call, click or come in for your ink cartridge needs.


--
Charles & Sue Harrison
http://www.InkForYourPrinter.com
Toll free 1-866-677-1900

Call, click or come in for your ink cartridge needs.
>Send Killietalk mailing list submissions to
>	killietalk at aka_org
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>	http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>	killietalk-request at aka_org
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>	killietalk-owner at aka_org
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Killietalk digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>       (Gary Elson or Mary Frauley)
>    2. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?	(wasRe:Artemiaprice
>       comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia) (Scott Douglass)
>    3. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (Robert Goldstein)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:15:42 -0500
>From: Gary Elson or Mary Frauley <fraulels at videotron_ca>
>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>
>>  I thought the same as you at one time.  I worked in a public aquarium and
>>  marine hydroids were a major nuisance in jelyfish exhibits which were fed
>>  BBS.  The people there also thought that the hydroids came in on the cysts
>>  since all our seawater was artificial. Also, like you, I was getting hydra
>>  outbreaks in tanks in my fishroom, and would even get hydra in shoeboxes
>>  fed
>>  BBS.
>>
>>  When I was able to get some Flubendazole, I used it to eradicate hydra
>>  from
>>  the tanks in which they appeared.  This was probably 2 years ago and I
>>  haven't seen a hydra since then.  If the hydra were coming in on the
>>  cysts,
>>  I should have gotten re-infestations in this time.  I don't believe that
>>  any
>>  non-chemical means can totally eradicate hydra.
>
>Markus and everyone,
>
>I've argued the position on killietalk that there had to be a connection
>between hydra getting in and bbs cysts. And I can now second Richard on his
>opposing position - I was wrong. Hydra is clearly very tenacious and capable
>of hanging on unseen. I too dosed ny tanks with flubendazole two years ago,
>and I have not seen a hydra here since (tempting luck...) I hatch bbs daily
>and feed it as a staple to all sizes of killies. Three years ago, hydra were
>a major problem, eating fry and leaving small sting scars on older, slowing
>down adults. They bounced back from all the commercial remedies and every
>home one I attempted. Flubendazole did the trick, although it is expensive
>and I'm told, hard to get now.
>
>I haven't kept precise records, but since the hydra haven't been in my
>tanks, the number of species in my setup that produce slow, steady numbers
>of fry without me picking eggs must have at least doubled - maybe tripled.
>
>
>Gary Elson
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:16:56 +0800
>From: "Scott Douglass" <scottdouglass2000 at yahoo_com.au>
>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>	(wasRe:Artemiaprice comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>To: "'killifish discussion list'" <killietalk at aka_org>
>
>Markus, sounds like you are getting a Hydra obsession there ;)
>
>The answer to your question is that the Hydra have stinging cells that work
>better on soft bodies eg newly hatched brine shrimp. They can still catch
>Daphnia etc, just it takes a lot more work due to the hard exoskeleton.
>
>Also another observation, BBS are kind of dumb and just swim any old how
>especially to light. Daphnia et al are more aware and will generally try and
>avoid danger. Even fry have to "hunt" Daphnia Moina etc, but BBS just swims
>straight into them.
>
>Scott,
>Singapore.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: killietalk-bounces+scottdouglass2000=yahoo_com.au at aka.org
>[mailto:killietalk-bounces+scottdouglass2000=yahoo_com.au at aka.org] On Behalf
>Of Markus Brown
>Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 5:06 PM
>To: killifish discussion list
>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>(wasRe:Artemiaprice comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>
>So, perhaps there is something particular that the Hydra like in newly
>hatched bbs and not Moina, daphnia, copepods and grindal worms and some
>chopped black worms? I cannot argue, what I don't experience in this
>situation. I agree, it is unusual that hydra have not made an appearance in
>your tanks Barry, but then again, this hobby is loaded with hard to explain
>phenomenon i.e: bacterial crashes, disease frequency on healthy fish and ,
>lest not forget belly sliding??? There are many theories, all containing
>some fact, but singly weak, but as a whole, there is a pattern.
>
>My point is that unless the hydra get a particular protein or mineral that
>they do not get from other foods, then it is unreasonable to believe that
>they would only flourish from one food. If these are truly fresh water
>species, they would feed primarily on copepods. I have several species of
>these fluttering about my system, but alas, as I stated, only the tanks I
>feed brine shrimp babies, bloom the hydra.
>
>I agree though. Seems like my theory is blasted;)
>
>Thank you everyone who argued my question thoroughly!
>
>Markus
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>
>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>
>
>>  Trouble is, Markus, at least in my opinion, you haven't eliminated the
>>  the most likely reason, which most people accept, and that is that live
>>  bbs make wonderful food for hydra. I suspect you have them in your tanks
>>  at very low levels and those that are fed live bbs get a bloom. You can
>>  test this, perhaps, by feeding some tanks with bbs hatched after
>>  decapsulating, others with regular bs.
>>
>>  I could counteract you observation by saying that I feed lots of bbs and
>>  I never see hydra. If they come in on the cysts, why would that be?
>>
>>  Barry
>>
>>  Barry J. Cooper
>>  Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>
>>
>>
>>  Markus Brown wrote:
>>
>>>Ok.
>>>
>>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom
>>>of
>>>hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>>
>>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece
>>>of
>>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify
>>>some
>>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was
>>>recorded
>>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>>
>>>
>>>Markus
>>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>>truth".
>>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>>underwear!!"
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>  >>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>>brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>>discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>>lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>>attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>>personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>>
>>>>Barry
>>>>
>>>>Barry J. Cooper
>>>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine
>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no
>>>>>bbs.
>>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added
>>>>>to
>>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>>feeding,
>>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To
>  >>>>begin
>>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter
>>>>>bed.
>>>>>My
>>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>>>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>>>with
>>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>>thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the
>>>>>un-hatched
>>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating
>>>>>the
>>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>>
>>>>>Markus
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed
>>>>>>>baby
>>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more
>>>>>>>thing
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>>
>  >>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't
>>>>>>>>hatch
>>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>  >>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>  Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>  Modify your subscription at
>>  http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>
>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>Modify your subscription at
>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:00:33 -0500
>From: "Robert Goldstein" <rgoldstein at rjgaCarolina_com>
>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>
>On that note, while flubendazole is effective at eradicating hydra, I found
>it ineffective in eradicating salt water hydroids. - Bob G.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Pierce" <dr_plankton at att_net>
>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:11 AM
>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>
>
>>  Hi Markus, no flames, just some additional observations:
>>
>>  I thought the same as you at one time.  I worked in a public aquarium and
>>  marine hydroids were a major nuisance in jelyfish exhibits which were fed
>>  BBS.  The people there also thought that the hydroids came in on the cysts
>>  since all our seawater was artificial. Also, like you, I was getting hydra
>>  outbreaks in tanks in my fishroom, and would even get hydra in shoeboxes
>>  fed
>>  BBS.
>>
>>  When I was able to get some Flubendazole, I used it to eradicate hydra
>  > from
>>  the tanks in which they appeared.  This was probably 2 years ago and I
>>  haven't seen a hydra since then.  If the hydra were coming in on the
>>  cysts,
>>  I should have gotten re-infestations in this time.  I don't believe that
>>  any
>>  non-chemical means can totally eradicate hydra.  I was sterilizing
>>  everything with cheap vodka and the hydra would still re-appear.
>>  Obviously
>>  I couldn't treat the water, plants or fish this way, and I question its
>>  effectiveness on sponge filters and gravel.  You need to treat everything:
>>  tanks, plants, gravel, mops, filters, water and fish all simultaneously.
>>  It
>>  only takes a few cells for the hydra to regenerate and repopulate.  BBS
>>  are
>>  just the perfect food for hydra and they grow from an invisible, relict
>>  population to a bloom very quickly when excess BBS is available.  I also
>>  noticed that tanks which received enough light to stimulate algae growth
>>  would be populated by green hydra while the remaining tanks would have the
>>  white hydra.
>>
>>  Best wishes,
>>  Rich Pierce
>>  North Attleboro, MA
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
>>  Behalf Of Markus Brown
>  > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:29 AM
>>  To: killifish discussion list
>>  Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>  (wasRe:Artemiaprice comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>
>>  Ok.
>>
>>  Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>  only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>  live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>  only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>  the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>  which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom
>>  of
>>  hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>
>>  Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>  fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece
>>  of
>>  old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify
>>  some
>>  of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>  few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was
>>  recorded
>>  as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>
>>
>>  Markus
>>  As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>  is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>  truth".
>>  And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>  underwear!!"
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>  To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>  (wasRe:Artemia
>>  price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>
>>>  Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>  brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>  discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>  lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>  attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>  personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>
>>>  Barry
>>>
>>>  Barry J. Cooper
>>>  Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Markus Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gerry
>>>>
>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine
>>>>shrimp
>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no bbs.
>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added
>>>>to
>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>feeding,
>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>
>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To begin
>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter bed.
>>>>My
>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>  >>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>>with
>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the un-hatched
>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating the
>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>
>>>>Markus
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>  >>>>fish
>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed
>>>>>>baby
>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more thing
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>same
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't
>>>>>>>hatch
>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
Delivered-To: inkmkrco-charles at inkmkr_com
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:22:34 -0600
To: charles at inkmkr_com
From: "Charles H Harrison, Ph D" <charles at inkmkr_com>
Subject: Fwd: Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
X-ELNK-Trace: 
d779639ca214542f7c4c86d0c59f5edc9ef193a6bfc3dd48db6affe06c122963bd08d642b6ed149c3b5efdd33357ec02350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
X-Originating-IP: 68.184.209.82

>>>>>>>>Delivered-To: inkmkrco-charles at inkmkr_com
>>>>>>>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:21:32 -0600
>>>>>>>>To: charles at inkmkr_com
>>>>>>>>From: Charles & Sue Harrison <csharrison at inkmaker_net>
>>>>>>>>Subject: Fwd: Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
>>>>>>>>X-ELNK-Trace: 
>>>>>>>>d779639ca214542f7c4c86d0c59f5edc9ef193a6bfc3dd48db6affe06c12296325f3b86f2d8b794327b02ac19e33883a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>  >>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>  >>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>
>X-Originating-IP: 68.184.209.82
>
>>Delivered-To: inkmaker-csharrison at inkmaker_net
>>From: killietalk-request at aka_org
>>Subject: Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
>>To: killietalk at aka_org
>>Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 04:06:30 -0500
>>X-BeenThere: killietalk at aka_org
>>List-Id: killifish discussion list <killietalk.aka.org>
>>List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk>,
>>	<mailto:killietalk-request at aka_org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>List-Archive: <http://www.actwin.com/pipermail/killietalk>
>>List-Post: <mailto:killietalk at aka_org>
>>List-Help: <mailto:killietalk-request at aka_org?subject=help>
>>List-Subscribe: <http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk>,
>>	<mailto:killietalk-request at aka_org?subject=subscribe>
>>Sender: killietalk-bounces+csharrison=inkmaker_net at aka.org
>>X-Virus-Status: Clean
>>
>>Send Killietalk mailing list submissions to
>>	killietalk at aka_org
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>	http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk
>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>	killietalk-request at aka_org
>>
>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>	killietalk-owner at aka_org
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of Killietalk digest..."
>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (Scott Douglass)
>>    2. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia price
>>       comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia) (Barry Cooper)
>>    3. Re: Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia	price
>>       comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia) (Markus Brown)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:33:20 +0800
>>From: "Scott Douglass" <scottdouglass2000 at yahoo_com.au>
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>To: "'killifish discussion list'" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>
>>On this Hydra thing, the hydra love soft newly hatched brine shrimp. They
>>are also fresh water species, so the chance of them coming in on brine
>>shrimp cysts is virtually zero.
>>Marine Hydroids though related are different beasts altogether.
>>I would take a safe bet that they are coming in with Daphnia, Moina and then
>>blooming when there is enough food around in the tank.
>>Daphnia are not a good prey for Hydra due to the carapace (shell) on them,
>>but they will both enjoy the same foods, protests, ciliates etc. So it is
>>easy for them to be around.
>>Hydra can also reproduce asexually, so it is not a good idea to simply wipe
>>them off, which can be like cloning hundreds of them as they break up.
>>If there is hydra in a tank, then simply don't feed for a day or two and
>>they will go away. For fry tip the tray into a new clean one, most of the
>>hydra will stay stuck to the walls of the old tray.
>>Unfortunately when feeding lots of live foods like killie keepers do, there
>>will always be some unwanted stowaways. It is easier to live with it and
>>manage it rather than going for napalm style solutions.
>>
>>One other thing if your BBS go fast in your tanks, look closely at the glass
>>and chances are you will see some fat hydra.
>>
>>Scott,
>>Singapore.
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: killietalk-bounces+scottdouglass2000=yahoo_com.au at aka.org
>>[mailto:killietalk-bounces+scottdouglass2000=yahoo_com.au at aka.org] On Behalf
>>Of Richard Pierce
>>Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 2:12 PM
>>To: killifish discussion list
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>
>>Hi Markus, no flames, just some additional observations:
>>
>>I thought the same as you at one time.  I worked in a public aquarium and
>>marine hydroids were a major nuisance in jelyfish exhibits which were fed
>>BBS.  The people there also thought that the hydroids came in on the cysts
>>since all our seawater was artificial. Also, like you, I was getting hydra
>>outbreaks in tanks in my fishroom, and would even get hydra in shoeboxes fed
>>BBS.
>>
>>When I was able to get some Flubendazole, I used it to eradicate hydra from
>>the tanks in which they appeared.  This was probably 2 years ago and I
>>haven't seen a hydra since then.  If the hydra were coming in on the cysts,
>>I should have gotten re-infestations in this time.  I don't believe that any
>>non-chemical means can totally eradicate hydra.  I was sterilizing
>>everything with cheap vodka and the hydra would still re-appear.  Obviously
>>I couldn't treat the water, plants or fish this way, and I question its
>>effectiveness on sponge filters and gravel.  You need to treat everything:
>>tanks, plants, gravel, mops, filters, water and fish all simultaneously.  It
>>only takes a few cells for the hydra to regenerate and repopulate.  BBS are
>>just the perfect food for hydra and they grow from an invisible, relict
>>population to a bloom very quickly when excess BBS is available.  I also
>>noticed that tanks which received enough light to stimulate algae growth
>>would be populated by green hydra while the remaining tanks would have the
>>white hydra.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>Rich Pierce
>>North Attleboro, MA
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
>>Behalf Of Markus Brown
>>Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:29 AM
>>To: killifish discussion list
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>(wasRe:Artemiaprice comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>
>>Ok.
>>
>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom of
>>hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>
>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece of
>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify some
>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was recorded
>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>
>>
>>Markus
>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>truth".
>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>underwear!!"
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>>  Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>  brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>  discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>  lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>  attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>  personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>
>>>  Barry
>>>
>>>  Barry J. Cooper
>>>  Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Markus Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gerry
>>>>
>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine shrimp
>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no bbs.
>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added to
>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>feeding,
>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>
>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To begin
>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter bed.
>>>>My
>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>  >>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>  >>with
>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the un-hatched
>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating the
>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>
>>>>Markus
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>fish
>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed baby
>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more thing
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>same
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions and
>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't hatch
>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>when
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>  >>
>>>  Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>  Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>  Modify your subscription at
>>  > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>
>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>
>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 2
>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:47:59 -0800
>>From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>	(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>
>>Trouble is, Markus, at least in my opinion, you haven't eliminated the
>>the most likely reason, which most people accept, and that is that live
>>bbs make wonderful food for hydra. I suspect you have them in your tanks
>>at very low levels and those that are fed live bbs get a bloom. You can
>>test this, perhaps, by feeding some tanks with bbs hatched after
>>decapsulating, others with regular bs.
>>
>>I could counteract you observation by saying that I feed lots of bbs and
>>I never see hydra. If they come in on the cysts, why would that be?
>>
>>Barry
>>
>>Barry J. Cooper
>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>
>>
>>
>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>
>>>Ok.
>>>
>>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom of
>>  >hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>>
>>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece of
>>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify some
>>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was recorded
>>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>>
>>>
>>>Markus
>>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>>truth".
>>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>>underwear!!"
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>>brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>>discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>>lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>>attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>>personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>>
>>>>Barry
>>>>
>>>>Barry J. Cooper
>>>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine shrimp
>>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no bbs.
>>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added to
>>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>>feeding,
>>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>>
>>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To begin
>>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>  >>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter bed.
>>>>>My
>>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>  >>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>>>with
>>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>>thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the un-hatched
>>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating the
>>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>>
>>>>>Markus
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed baby
>>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more thing
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions and
>>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't hatch
>>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>  >>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>  >>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>>
>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>Modify your subscription at 
>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:06:14 -0800
>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>	(wasRe:Artemia	price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>
>>So, perhaps there is something particular that the Hydra like in newly
>>hatched bbs and not Moina, daphnia, copepods and grindal worms and some
>>chopped black worms? I cannot argue, what I don't experience in this
>>situation. I agree, it is unusual that hydra have not made an appearance in
>>your tanks Barry, but then again, this hobby is loaded with hard to explain
>>phenomenon i.e: bacterial crashes, disease frequency on healthy fish and ,
>>lest not forget belly sliding??? There are many theories, all containing
>>some fact, but singly weak, but as a whole, there is a pattern.
>>
>>My point is that unless the hydra get a particular protein or mineral that
>>they do not get from other foods, then it is unreasonable to believe that
>>they would only flourish from one food. If these are truly fresh water
>>species, they would feed primarily on copepods. I have several species of
>>these fluttering about my system, but alas, as I stated, only the tanks I
>>feed brine shrimp babies, bloom the hydra.
>>
>>I agree though. Seems like my theory is blasted;)
>>
>>Thank you everyone who argued my question thoroughly!
>>
>>Markus
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? (wasRe:Artemia
>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>
>>>  Trouble is, Markus, at least in my opinion, you haven't eliminated the
>>>  the most likely reason, which most people accept, and that is that live
>>>  bbs make wonderful food for hydra. I suspect you have them in your tanks
>>>  at very low levels and those that are fed live bbs get a bloom. You can
>>>  test this, perhaps, by feeding some tanks with bbs hatched after
>>>  decapsulating, others with regular bs.
>>>
>>>  I could counteract you observation by saying that I feed lots of bbs and
>>>  I never see hydra. If they come in on the cysts, why would that be?
>>>
>>>  Barry
>>>
>>>  Barry J. Cooper
>>>  Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Markus Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ok.
>>>>
>>>>Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
>>>>only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
>>>>live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
>>>>only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
>>>>the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
>>>>which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom
>>>>of
>>>>hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>>>>
>>>>Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
>>>>fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece
>>  >>of
>>>>old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify
>>>>some
>>>>of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
>>  >>few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was
>>>>recorded
>>>>as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Markus
>>>>As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
>>>>is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
>>>>truth".
>>>>And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
>>>>underwear!!"
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>>>>>brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>>>>>discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>>>>>lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>>>>>attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>>>>>personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>>>>
>>>>>Barry
>>>>>
>>>>>Barry J. Cooper
>>>>>Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Markus Brown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine
>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no
>>>>>>bbs.
>>>>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>>>>feeding,
>>>>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To
>>>>>>begin
>>>>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter
>>>>>>bed.
>>>>>>My
>>>>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>>>>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>>>>thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the
>>>>>>un-hatched
>>>>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>>>>shrimp
>>>>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gerry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed
>>>>>>>>baby
>>>>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more
>>  >>>>>>thing
>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Markus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>  >>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>due
>>>>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't
>>>>>>>>>hatch
>>>>>>>>>get
>>>>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>>>>FREE!
>>>>>>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>  Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>  Modify your subscription at
>>>  http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>To join the AKA see http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at 
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>End of Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 93
>>******************************************
>
>------------------------------
>
>To join the AKA see http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>Modify your subscription at 
>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>End of Killietalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 94
>******************************************

Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
Prev by Date: Re: [Killietalk] Just curious :-) on spouses
Next by Date: Re: [Killietalk] The Armagosa River in two days...
Previous by thread: [Killietalk] Keyboard for your fishroom
Next by thread: [Killietalk] NYC members?
Index(es):
- Date
- Thread