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Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?

To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
From: "Robert Goldstein" <rgoldstein at rjgacarolina_com>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:00:33 -0500
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References: <CNEEIIEDADEFKPOEEGDDMEOHCGAA.dr_plankton@att.net>

On that note, while flubendazole is effective at eradicating hydra, I found 
it ineffective in eradicating salt water hydroids. - Bob G.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Pierce" <dr_plankton at att_net>
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?


> Hi Markus, no flames, just some additional observations:
>
> I thought the same as you at one time.  I worked in a public aquarium and
> marine hydroids were a major nuisance in jelyfish exhibits which were fed
> BBS.  The people there also thought that the hydroids came in on the cysts
> since all our seawater was artificial. Also, like you, I was getting hydra
> outbreaks in tanks in my fishroom, and would even get hydra in shoeboxes 
> fed
> BBS.
>
> When I was able to get some Flubendazole, I used it to eradicate hydra 
> from
> the tanks in which they appeared.  This was probably 2 years ago and I
> haven't seen a hydra since then.  If the hydra were coming in on the 
> cysts,
> I should have gotten re-infestations in this time.  I don't believe that 
> any
> non-chemical means can totally eradicate hydra.  I was sterilizing
> everything with cheap vodka and the hydra would still re-appear. 
> Obviously
> I couldn't treat the water, plants or fish this way, and I question its
> effectiveness on sponge filters and gravel.  You need to treat everything:
> tanks, plants, gravel, mops, filters, water and fish all simultaneously. 
> It
> only takes a few cells for the hydra to regenerate and repopulate.  BBS 
> are
> just the perfect food for hydra and they grow from an invisible, relict
> population to a bloom very quickly when excess BBS is available.  I also
> noticed that tanks which received enough light to stimulate algae growth
> would be populated by green hydra while the remaining tanks would have the
> white hydra.
>
> Best wishes,
> Rich Pierce
> North Attleboro, MA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
> Behalf Of Markus Brown
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:29 AM
> To: killifish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
> (wasRe:Artemiaprice comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>
>
> Ok.
>
> Consider this. In 20 years of keeping fresh water and saltwater fish, the
> only tanks that have had Hydra blooms are those tanks which have received
> live brine shrimp. There is no confusion for which tanks get what, for the
> only tanks to get bbs are the tanks with only babies fish in them. Many of
> the tanks I have cared for have been fed live daphnia from outdoor ponds
> which have hydra from time to time. These tanks have never showed a bloom 
> of
> hydra. Lucky, I know, but relavant for my argumant.
>
> Saltwater hydra, which is seen often on  live rock, can withstand hours of
> fresh water dips and can even further survive permanently. I took a piece 
> of
> old Jakarta live rock and put it in clean, pure fresh water to identify 
> some
> of the animals living in the rock as an exercise for a class I mentored a
> few years back. After six plus weeks of soaking, all basic life was 
> recorded
> as dead, except, yep, the hydra.
>
>
> Markus
> As Arthur C.Doyle quated for Sherlock, "When you have eliminated all which
> is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the
> truth".
> And, as been said on this very list, "Time for my flame retardent
> underwear!!"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra? 
> (wasRe:Artemia
> price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>
>
>> Sorry Markus, but I agree with Gerry. The idea of Hydra coming in on
>> brine shrimp cysts has been raised before but is pretty much
>> discredited. It is very unlikely that a species that grows in a salt
>> lake would become established in a fresh water tank. Most people
>> attribute blooms of hydra to the bbs providing food for them. At least
>> personally I don't accept the theory of hydra coming in on bs cysts.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> Barry J. Cooper
>> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>
>>
>>
>> Markus Brown wrote:
>>
>>>Gerry
>>>
>>>I appreciate your opinion, but for me, the only vector can be brine 
>>>shrimp
>>>eggs. I have never had hydra in any baby/adult tanks that receive no bbs.
>>>When I feed bbs to my fish, there is NO left over. So few bbs are added 
>>>to
>>>the tank, they are consumed within minutes. If I want a much longer
>>>feeding,
>>>I use Moina or sifted daphnia.
>>>
>>>As far as being in my source water, that would be very unlikely. To begin
>>>with, my source water is filtered through a 5 micron prefilter and two
>>>carbon block filters, a 75gal/day R.O membrane and then a D.I filter bed.
>>>My
>>>tap is very soft, with almost no mineral content, aside from a minimal
>>>amount of caco3. Hydra do not last in soft water in my experiance. They
>>>reproduce only so long and then die off. I messed around with this
>>>phenomenon a wile back when I found them in a couple of a baby tanks. I
>>>added a few dozen hydra to static water, with a smattering of bbs. Even
>>>with
>>>the addition of bbs daily, they deceased in a few weeks. I know this is
>>>rather "ghetto" of an experiment, but it was telling of my previous
>>>thoughts.
>>>
>>>I do wonder if they are added to the baby tanks along with the un-hatched
>>>brine? That's why I asked if decapsulating them and better separating the
>>>eggs, from the hatched naupolii was better for avoiding Hydra.
>>>
>>>Markus
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Gerald Rosenbeck" <grosenbeck at hotmail_com>
>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:15 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>(wasRe:Artemia
>>>price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I seriously doubt if the hydra infestation is coming from  the brine
>>>>shrimp
>>>>eggs. More likely your source water or very minor infestations in your
>>>>fish
>>>>tanks. All that food , they multiply like craze.
>>>>
>>>>Gerry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Markus Brown" <thefishbiologist at charter_net>
>>>>>Reply-To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
>>>>>(wasRe:Artemia price comparison) (was Re: Hatching decappedartemia)
>>>>>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:18:45 -0800
>>>>>
>>>>>Here is another question for this thread:
>>>>>
>>>>>Does decapsulated Brine Shrimp eliminate the spread of Hydra?
>>>>>
>>>>>I have almost never seen Hydra in any tanks other than those I feed 
>>>>>baby
>>>>>brine too. Hasnt been a real problm toward my fish, just one more thing
>>>>>I
>>>>>have to wipe off the glass;)
>>>>>
>>>>>Markus
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "wm crash" <wm_crash at hotmail_com>
>>>>>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:28 PM
>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] Artemia price comparison (was Re: Hatching
>>>>>decappedartemia)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Using the advertised numbers of brineshrimpdirect it works out that
>>>>>>decapped
>>>>>>brine eggs cost 5.2 times more than normal brine eggs to produce the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>same
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>amount of feedable artemia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Assumptions made:
>>>>>>- premium grade artemia has a 70% yield due to non-ideal conditions 
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>due
>>>>>>to the fact that not all hatched artmia are harvested and fed
>>>>>>- decapsulated artemia has 100% yield because the ones that don't 
>>>>>>hatch
>>>>>>get
>>>>>>mixed with the hatched ones and in general, fry will eat them anyhow
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>when
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>mixed in with the hatched ones
>>>>>>- shipping cost was not factored in
>>>>>>- price for the 1lb can was used for normal eggs, and for the 400mL
>>>>>>container for decapped eggs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>take care,
>>>>>>wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
>>>>>>AKA #08840, SAA #162, SVAS #120, HOOLIGAN #1
>>>>>>San Jose, CA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
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>>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
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>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
>>>>FREE!
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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>
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References:
- Re: [Killietalk] Decapsulated brine eliminate Hydra?
  - From: Richard Pierce

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