Re: [Killietalk] Scanning Job - JAKA on CD/DVD

["Erny May" <emay1 at wi_rr.com>]

Bobby,

That is great! Problem is that apparently the AKA can not afford the project 
according to a number
of knowledgeable people. How they know what the AKA can and cannot afford is 
a mystery, since
to this day there has been no disclosure of our financial state. But "they" 
are knowledgeable people
like Barry C and Peter T etc. and if they say we don't have the money then I 
guess we just have to believe
them. What choice do we have?

Erny


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ROBERT ELLERMANN" <ruevenm at sbcglobal_net>
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Scanning Job - JAKA on CD/DVD


> Hi Barry,
>
>    The AKA does own an old set of KN/JAKA's. Several years ago (2000?) 
> charter member Dick Haas sent his extensive collection of AKA publications 
> to Dick Martino for the AKA archives. I know as he sent me all his non-AKA 
> killie stuff and rare hobbyist magazines. This would be a perfect use of 
> that kind gift to the Association. That said one could scan 1st generation 
> high quality xerox copies of the old magazines.
>
> Bobby
>
> Barry Cooper <bjc3 at centurytel_net> wrote:
> I don't want to prolong this discussion, but I would like to comment on
> a couple of things Kent says. First, OCR processing to produce the PDF
> document does not greatly increase the file size. In fact, for one of
> the issues that I have processed, the image files for that issue added
> up to 13.2 mb. The finished OCR PDF was 5.2 mb, including a full color
> version of the cover, which was 1.6 mb. The scanned page images are
> admittedly tiff files, which are larger than jpeg, but at worst doing
> OCR to produce the final PDF will be a wash as far as file size goes
> (e.g. if the scanned page images were saved as jpegs). Furthermore, an
> OCR document has other advantages. The quality of the scan, particularly
> with the oldest JAKAs and Killie Notes, can be quite poor, due to poor
> quality paper and type. OCR allows these to be corrected, during the
> proofing process. In addition, spelling errors in the originals can be
> corrected. I'm in two minds about whether we should do so, as the
> scanned JAKAs and KNs will form a digital historical archive. In the
> issues I have done so far I decided to correct obvious mis-spellings of
> common words, but have not corrected or updated nomenclature, etc. In an
> OCRed document it would also be possible, perhaps in a "deluxe" edition,
> to append comments regarding changed nomenclature, etc. One last problem
> is that I don't know who would want their old and precious JAKAs and KNs
> to be disassembled for scanning using a drum scanner or document feeder.
> The AKA itself does not own a complete set of these documents and I, for
> one, would not consent to my old copies being pulled apart. Finally, an
> OCR processed PDF can be searched, across issues and volumes, using
> Adobe Reader. I would not argue that a separate index would not be
> useful, but indexes are not perfect. The ability to search for
> particular words in the set of documents on a disk would be useful.
> Software is available that allows you to generate an index from a PDF
> document.
>
> As everyone says, just my 2 cents.
>
> Regards,
>
> Barry
>
> Barry J. Cooper
> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>
>
>
> Kent Hunsuckle wrote:
>
>>Getting this done commercialy will run anywhere from $.05-.15 per image 
>>from
>>most honest individuals if there is no prep work to be done. In the 
>>industry
>>I have heard of it going for $.25 per image with prep work. (prep is 
>>making
>>sure the documents can be fed into the scanner ie remove staples and such)
>>This kind of work can be found by contacting your friendly micrographics
>>(microfilm and fiche) folks as digital imaging is the way of the modern
>>world. My suggestion would be to scan it into a PDF format but don't have 
>>it
>>OCRed, the file size will be incredible and the cost will grow as well 
>>then
>>you'll never be able to afford it. Also tell them to leave the document
>>where you can go in and index it as you see fit. Another suggestion would 
>>be
>>to scan one year at a time. This will make it easier to index and easier 
>>to
>>afford to have it done.
>>
>>OK, I'm done, this was just a few thoughts off the top of my head.
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Larry B."
>>To:
>>Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 4:30 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Scanning Job - JAKA on CD/DVD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Okay guys. Lets do it this way. As a new member of the BOT (effective
>>>1-1-2006) let me get started into this to sorta scope out the project.
>>>First I need the BOT to agree that its a good idea for me to dig into 
>>>this
>>>a little. Then lets see what it would cost commercially without giving
>>>the
>>>baby away and assigning rights to OUR pubs to a commercial outfit. Brian
>>>made a good point on that. I've already said I would start looking for
>>>quotes from commercial outfits to get some idea of what we're talking
>>>about
>>>in terms of $$$$. I have an estimate of how many pages of scanning we're
>>>talking about from Barry. (Approx. 7500 !) Given the state of the art in
>>>OCR scanning today, thats not only a lot of scanning, its a ton of proof
>>>reading and correcting. OCR is a long way from being perfect although
>>>printed pages are lot less trouble than hand written pages but still
>>>everything has to be proof read and corrected.. I have a licensed copy of
>>>one of the premier OCR programs and its a long way from perfect.
>>>Additionally all of the images should be marked as our property. More
>>>work.
>>>
>>>And I haven't scratched the surface. Remember I just started thinking
>>>about
>>>this thing.
>>>
>>>As soon as I get the BOT sign off on me doing this. I'll get back to
>>>Killitalk with whatever requests for help I think necessary. Until then
>>>give me and the list a break and lets get back to fish on here. I would
>>>like to know if anyone out there has any contacts into the businesses 
>>>that
>>>does this kind of work.
>>>
>>>But if anybody has any really good ideas get to me off-list. All who help
>>>will be recognized for that help..
>>>
>>>Larry Botkin
>>>
>>>AKA
>>>CKA
>>>WAKO
>>>TAKO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 01:33 PM 10/15/2005, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:39:19 -0500
>>>>From:
>>>>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] scanning job
>>>>To: "killifish discussion list"
>>>>
>>>>Ok Where is the leader of this project?
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Kate Breimayer"
>>>>To:
>>>>Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:34 AM
>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] scanning job
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ok, now you got me curious. Somebody email the requirements off list
>>>>>and
>>>>>I will see if I can do it and how long it takes. Got a scanner, good
>>>>>computers, photoshop and other useful stuff, and lots of free time.
>>>>>Also
>>>>>a Linux box if someone wants to find an open source version of a
>>>>>program
>>>>>needed to do this. Note I am NOT the household member with the computer
>>>>>skills! I am merely the better half who constantly badgers him to teach
>>>>>me. The more I do while unemployed the less damage to the ol resume...
>>>>>
>>>>>Kate B
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]
>>>>>>On
>>>>>>Behalf Of Mike Jacobs
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 10:17 PM
>>>>>>To: killietalk at aka_org
>>>>>>Subject: [Killietalk] JAKA copy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Many people don't realize what a time consuming job this is if it is
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>done properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most scanners come with software for optical character
>>>>>>recognition,
>>>>>>but
>>>>>>mistakes always creep in because of dirt or printing imperfections.
>>>>>>To
>>>>>>proof one page and render it error free takes a detail oriented
>>>>>>person.
>>>>>>When your done you get a text version of the article but it is not a
>>>>>>facsimile. To get something identical to the original you need to
>>>>>>match
>>>>>>types, margins and all the other print settings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you have to scan the pictures and insert them. To get a
>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>job,
>>>>>>you have to calibrate your scanner as well as you monitor. Then you
>>>>>>insert
>>>>>>the pictures between the text columns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have done this with several of my bosses' old journal articles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The pages were a little larger than JAKA pages, but not 8.5" X 11".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Once I became good at it, it took about a hour to produce one digital
>>>>>>page
>>>>>>that looked like the original with searchable text.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The alternative is just to scan the page like a picture and then
>>>>>>make a
>>>>>>pdf from the image. This can be done quickly, but is of much poorer
>>>>>>quality. Often times the print from the back page shows through and
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>file size necessary to get a nice monitor viewable image, is larger
>>>>>>than
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>standard pdf. Also the finished product looks like the original, but
>>>>>>can
>>>>>>not be treated as text. It is really only a picture of the original.
>>>>>>When
>>>>>>things are going well, this will take about ten to fifteen minutes per
>>>>>>page.
>>>>>>The end result could be put on DVD's instead of CD's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is a much needed project, but everyone, especially
>>>>>>volunteers, should realize that it is a very time intensive project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Before tackling it, make sure you have good computer with plenty of
>>>>>>memory
>>>>>>and hard drive space, as well as a high resolution scanner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Software made specifically for this process and not the standard OEM
>>>>>>software that comes with the scanner, will also be needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A large club with a computer guru and several less technical but
>>>>>>still
>>>>>>computer literate volunteers might be more successful, but there would
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>to be someone overseeing the project to make sure each person is
>>>>>>producing
>>>>>>the same quality of work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do hope this gets done sometime, and will congratulate the
>>>>>>person
>>>>>>who
>>>>>>completes it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bill Martin"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>>Modify your subscription at
>>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
>>Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>>Modify your subscription at 
>>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at 
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at 
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> 



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