Lorraine Try using sinking mops. I raise black worms your way and have three sinking mops and just have to swirl em around a little and wallah! insint lunch! Markus Join the AKA at http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9 Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/ Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk