[Killietalk] Re:Another view - Tom Payne's posting

[Gary Elson or Mary frauley <fraulels at videotron_ca>]

Here, for the little it's worth, is my analysis. I think there are 
learning curves, and equipment curves that combine with motivation to 
make these supposed "levels" in the hobby. If you have a lot of 
experience and a well set-up fishkeeping area in terms of clean water, 
appropriate water, live foods and space, combined with a means of 
earning a living that gives you time to putter, then you can succeed 
long term with cameronense or mimbon. You probably won't produce many - 
maybe half a dozen extra pairs of each per annum. Most of these will go 
to your friends.

If you have a "normal" fishroom and a budget, selling fish can matter. 
"Plebian" and fertile tend to interchange. Two of my favourites are my 
celiae Ebonji and primigenium GEB 94-21, because they breed themselves, 
give good ratios and are beautiful. They aren't common or "plebian" yet, 
but they will be. What will make them common isn't their colours, 
because both are very striking. They breed too easily.

What we tend to want are the fish that don't readily reproduce in 
captivity. If I could get my hands on mimbon, I think I could handle it, 
after 15 years of killie experience and with a fishroom that  is working 
pretty well. But if I can't get my paws on it, it's likely because there 
are only a few pairs surplus in the AKA per year.

I wonder about a fish like ocellatum, which I would class as a highly 
desirable "advanced" fish. When I attended the AKA in Buffalo, there 
were at least two populations at reasonable prices in the fish sales 
room. There were a number of bags available even late into the buying 
frenzy. The same was true of cameronense and of zygaima. At least a 
dozen AKAers walked out of that convention with nice pairs of each. And 
yet, I don't see these fish around. Why? They are difficult and hard to 
breed. You don't see a lot of wildekampi around - and I bought a great 
pair of that fish in Buffalo. I couldn't breed them. Could I now? Maybe. 
But in spite of my efforts, I'm not the go-to guy I planned to be for 
that one.

I'm into killies and dwarf cichlids. The Europeans are ahead of us in 
conserving and distributing both. Why? I wish I knew. But I do see the 
same phenomenon in Pelvicachromis that I see in Aphyosemion. - we get 
them and dump them - they get them and keep them. Then again, I've met a 
European killie guy who joined a club and couldn't get killies - no one 
would give a newbie fish. He got his first gardneri from me. He said the 
local guys were only keeping very hard to breed species and couldn't be 
bothered with species someone could get a start in killie-keeping with. 
He ended up mailing gardneri eggs back to his other "newbie" friends in 
Europe from Canada, because fish like gardneri with identified 
locations  weren't available in the region he'd come from. No club's 
perfect...

So I can't offer Tom percentages. I suspect each region or affiliate has 
different species and different ideas of "rare" and "plebian".  In my 
club, Killi-Quebec, we have quite a percentage of younger members who've 
only recently gotten into killies, and we can't get fish by mail - just 
eggs.  That's going to give  a different profile than a club where the 
average age is fifty and  boxes are flying back and forth with other clubs.

What is clear is how N&RSC works. The listing appears and you order the 
fish. That's not snobby. It's a good service that seems to be getting 
stronger. It's one we missed in the AKA when it wasn't operating, but it 
seems to be up and running and we should support it.

Gary Elson (Montreal)



Tom Payne wrote:

> What do you estimate the number or percentage of the AKA membership 
> fall into the "so-called more advanced killifolk" class?
>
> What proportion of the AKA are breeding "these "next level" killies"?
>
> What proportion of the AKA are "journeyman killie breeders" who do the 
> more "plebian" fish?
>
> What qualifies a person breeding killies to acquire N&RS fish?
>
> Just wondering.
>
> Tom Payne,
> sunny, well, not now, but,.... Galena, Ohio
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