[Killietalk] Aquabid was ( RE: Getting fish to the AKA Convention Show)

["Lorraine" <overall077 at lycos_com>]

There are many AKA members who sell on Aquabid, those members will most
likely to be happy to trade/sell cheap to AKA members, I have done several
trades for mystery boxes. As my network of AKA members grow so does the
trading between us, resolving lonely hearts etc.
The reason I sell on Aquabid is to further my part in the hobby.
I would never have been able to build my fishroom if I had no return from my
fish (hubby is not that understanding).
So if you like my fish ask me if they are available, you might be surprised.
AKA members will always get priority if I have the fish or eggs available.


Lorraine
In sunny Colorado.
http://lorraines-killies.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces+overall077=lycos_com at aka.org
[mailto:killietalk-bounces+overall077=lycos_com at aka.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Pierce
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:04 PM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: RE: [Killietalk] RE: Getting fish to the AKA Convention Show

Dave,

#1  Your point about the foreign shows is a good one.  Perhaps it would be
more helpful instead of sending out a blanket request for fish to send, that
members of your team send private e-mails to individuals that you know when
fish are requested.  I am sure that you and others know who the good
breeders are and who the "black holes" are.  I wouldn't mind helping but I
would uually need 3-4 month's warning.  I have lots of juveniles in tanks
but don't keep a lot of extra breeding pairs around unless I know something
is coming up.  I just don't have the space to keep 3-5 pairs of breeding
size killies around if I already have 1-2 pairs breeding.  I also think that
a personal request from friend to friend would be more effective in getting
donations.

#4.  I think that Aquabid is ultimately good for the killie hobby as is a
profit motive.  It is basic economics that if you want more of an activity
or product, increase the profitability of that product.  As the product
becomes more available, the demand is met and the price drops.  The aquabid
market is basically saturated with gardneri's, striatum's and other "easy
killies".  The cost of shipping these fish is often equal the selling price
of these fish.  Rare fish go for much more money because the demand is high
and the supply is low.

The free market, like Aquabid, is also a fair determinant of price.  Fish
will sell for what people are willing to pay for them.  Overpriced fish
simply don't sell.  The cost of shipping also factors in the decision.  Some
vendors will only ship via Express or Overnight mail.  You have to want a
fish pretty badly to pay the retail price plus a $25-35 surcharge to get it
to you.  But I and others have, when the right fish come up.

Think about why we have the number system for the AKA sales room.  The
prices are kept artificially low.  If the sales room doors were opened up
and everyone were allowed in at once it would be chaos as everyone rushed in
to grab up the bargains.  I think that things went extremely smoothly at the
AKA sales room in Rockville, but you needed to control entry and purchase
amounts to keep order.  Kind of like the bread lines in the Soviet Union.
Also, does keeping the price artificially low even for difficult killies
encourage people not ready for the challenge to purchase fish they can't
keep alive?  Does this hurt the hobby?

#5.  Is Aquabid good for the AKA?  Possibly.  Aquabid is a 2 way street.
Several fish I have bought from people on Aquabid came from non AKA sources
but their offspring have ended up in the hands of AKA members and people who
are interested in keeping the fish around.  Last summer I bought groups of
Procatopus similis Mundemba and Rhexipanchax nimbaensis directly from Toyin
Ojo through his Aquabid listing.  A pair of these Procatopus went into the
show, won 3rd place in their class, and were auctioned with proceeds going
to the AKA.   Offspring of the Rhexipanchax found their way into the hands
of another AKA member at the convention.  I have also bought fish from
private parties, non AKA members, and their offspring have gone to other AKA
members.  Eventually these fish will start appearing at AKA conventions but
it takes a couple of years.

Regarding people buying fish from the AKA and turning around and immediately
selling them on Aquabid:  I don't think that this happens enough to worry
about.  In my case there is simply not enough profit to make it worth the
work.  I breed the fish and then sell the offspring to people on and off
Aquabid.  If you are not skilled enough to keep and breed killies, you will
probably lose too many fish to quickly to make much of a profit on Aquabid.
On the other hand, I have bought fish from fish club auctions at the end of
the auction when bags were going for a dollar, and turned them around
quickly on Aquabid, often making $20 or more in profit.  I don't secessarily
see this as a bad thing either.  I took fish that no one else wanted and got
them into the hands of people who really wanted them.  That is certainly
better than seeing them used as feeder fish!  It is also a gamble and you
need to know what is selling and not selling to make it work.

#6  Should the AKA have its own electronic auction system.  Why reinvent the
wheel?  Perhaps the AKA should instead come up with a logo and method to
allow AKA members to use their name to help sales on Aquabid.  Members would
have to follow the AKA Code of Ethics and the AKA could strip the privelege
from those who don't.  Imagine if half the killie sales on Aquabid have the
AKA logo on them as approved breeders.  It gives a lot free publicity for
the AKA and introduces people to the AKA.  A link to the AKA web site could
also be imbedded in the logo.  AKA logo users could also be required to give
a 10% discount to other AKA members, also encouraging membership.  People
can be pretty savvy when it comes to spending their money.  Don't you think
that buyers would wonder about sellers who are not AKA approved?  Sellers
can even specify that they only sell to AKA members if they wanted to.  For
example, if the New & Rare species committee wanted to use Aquabid.

Just some thoughts,

Rich Pierce


-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
Behalf Of Koran, David HQ02
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 12:29 PM
To: killietalk at aka_org
Subject: [Killietalk] RE: Getting fish to the AKA Convention Show


There have always been some basic assumptions which sort of come together
during the National Convention and much of it deals with the concept of new
and rare fish.  There is always tremendous interest in new fish, rare fish
or
fish from a new gene pool.  For as long as I can remember fish from Europe
always generated a buzz at any show (they met one or more of the three
requirements!).  If you look at the DKG shipment in this year's show they
were all really good examples of their species and most (young breeding
groups is a different concept than our matched breeding pairs) were really
show fish and not simple donations.  It might be interesting to note that we
received 28 entries and I had taken 28 entries to the DKG show earlier in
the
month.  We also receive a few KFN entries.  Also, in the past, we received
much larger contributions of foreign fish (and usually sent a slew of awards
overseas).  Last year we announced the effort to ship to European shows and
we had a small team (Dick Martino, Brian Perkins and myself) to receive and
coordinate the shipments.  I ended up doing the shipping (or hand carry as
was the case of the AKFB).  I can't remember the exact numbers but we were
able to ship over 100 pairs of fish to 7 shows, the idea being you need to
send something to get something in return.  Over half of those fish came
from
my fishroom and consisted mainly of pupfish and a few other native killies
which are eagerly received in Europe because they are "new and rare" to
them.
Only three other people actually supplied "show quality" fish with many
providing extras or no-sales leftover or pulled from auctions.  We all
really
appreciate the generosity but the quality didn't improve our image as fish
consumers.  I would like to get a message out and I think you should too
that
the AKA produces killies and also produces good quality killies; we want to
show you that.  And then hopefully that if you want to see more of them,
send
us something from you our way.  So point #1, is this a right or wrong
assumption or working premise?

The DKG shipment was sent to us at the DKG's expense, about $180 for air
cargo.  My carrying of fish to the DKG show was my expense and I hadn't
asked
to be reimbursed.  However, when Dick and I investigated the cost to air
cargo fish to Europe it was estimated to be about $250.  Contact me
privately
and I can tell you how the fish were shipped instead of air cargo (5 shows
for about $200 total!).  I have suggested to the BOT that they consider
providing a $175-200 grant to individuals who will attend a foreign show if
they carry AKA entries for the show.  So, should you "throw money" this way
to enhance the flow of fish from Europe (i.e., discussion point #2)?

Point #3 involves bringing fish of any kind across US borders.  I recently
renewed my import/export license thankfully at the old rate.  All US F&WS
fee
have gone up!  A license fee went from $55 annually to $100 and the
inspection fee also went from $55 to $100.  Hence the cost of bringing fish
into the country has gone up.  So adding to your difficulties of air
transport, inspection fees will also be an extra burden.  On point #3,
shouldn't we be making a stronger, coordinated effort to make sure we breed
what we get instead of relying on importation to meet our demands (sounds
like I am developing an energy policy, doesn't it!)?

I think we also owe Brian Perkins a big thanks for assembling the selection
of N&R fish he provided for the AKA's auction.  The selection didn't have a
lot of wild fish or many really new fish but a great selection of "rare"
stuff that we haven't seen for a while, much of that coming from European
breeders who have been maintaining the fish for those years since we lost
them right after the initial collection and distribution.  On this pass the
fish do go to the highest bidder and only a relatively small portion will
probably surface any time soon.  This is the link that needs some work.
Fish
are provided here to the membership (albeit only those in attendance at the
Convention) and also through the N&RSC listings.  Without the fishsale and
Aqua-Bid in the past you might expect the fish that were successfully bred
to
show up in the F&E Listing and at least have a chance to get a foothold in
the AKA so we didn't have to constantly restock.  Some fish always get
siphoned off into club auctions or club show auctions but for the most part
this did go back into the AKA.  The Convention fishsale does plow some of
these fish back into the AKA for a shot at maintenance but the window is a
bit narrower for acquisition.  My only gripe might be that the AKA gets
nothing on this that might go toward acquiring more N&R.  Maybe what cheeses
me is that fish acquired using AKA resources by AKA members gets turned
around and auctioned to the highest bidder on Aqua-Bid and not offered up to
AKA members where you might think the chances for maintenance would be
better.  So multiple points. #4, is Aqua-Bid good for the killifish hobby?
Point #5, is Aqua-Bid good or bad for the AKA?  Point #6, should we have an
AKA internal electronic auction system?  Point #7, is there a way to get the
AKA bad boy Aqua-Bid sellers to be more loyal to the AKA if that is their
source of breeding stock?

At the heart of all of my complaining is that I just don't think many of
today's members feel they owe the AKA any loyalty.  You really would not
have
much of anything if it were not for this organization.  You don't need to
lord over everything like it is the private domain of a select few but if
you
want the organization to prosper you need to give something back.  This goes
for fish and it also goes to volunteering to do something for the AKA.  We
can always come up with great ideas and then criticize when they don't get
done but just like folks having families and other priorities when finding
where to place killies in their order of importance, most folks have jobs
and
other requirements that doesn't permit them to spend all that time on
killies
and services.  Often if you want something you pretty much have to build it
yourself and offer it up for use in the hope you have built the better
"mousetrap".  Remember its apple pie, motherhood and the AKA!

Dave Koran

To join the AKA see http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/


To join the AKA see http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/

To join the AKA see http://aka.org/modules/tinycontent0/index.php?id=9
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/