off list RE: [Killietalk] Re:Too many species - Not Enough breeders

[Chris <cgraseck at optonline_net>]

Nicely said Tom.

Christopher Graseck
Rye, NY

"Let us learn to dream, then perhaps we shall find the truth. But let us
beware of publishing our dreams before they have been put to the proof
of the waking understanding. -August Kekule- 



-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org] On
Behalf Of Tom Grady
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 5:32 PM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: RE: [Killietalk] Re:Too many species - Not Enough breeders

  I am always fascinated by folks wanting the rare fish and the
arguments
that ensue, and I have a couple of thoughts to toss out there.

First, I tend to think most people forget an important fact about our
hobby - one that became painfully obvious to me several years ago when I
was
building the Species Maintenance Report for the AKA.  There is a limited
number of people breeding saleable/tradeable numbers of fish.  So much
is
made about scarcity of fish, but very little is really said about the
paucity of breeders.

Let me put it another way - and this is all rhetorical - questions each
of
us should consider.  There are something around 4,000 populations of
killies - nearly 1,000 described species.  There are somewhere around
750
American/Canadian members of the AKA.  I am not going to get into a
statistical debate, but I am willing to bet the numbers of people
actually
seriously working with killies on a long term ongoing basis (meaning
those
not in and out of the hobby or affected by real life influences which
reduce
their hobby time, but remain members) is less than 200, possibly less
than
100.  Just look at AKA conventions and that should give an idea of the
relative activity within the hobby - 125-200 attendence on a regular
basis.
To me this says alot of those "rare species' may be in the hobby, but
perhaps in only a few fishrooms - and not necessarily the fishrooms of
people currently able to work hard enough to produce the numbers to make
the
fish more common in the hobby.

Okay - now lets add to this another factor with a completely different
focus.  When a Brian Watters, Barry Cooper, Peter Tirbak or any number
of
wonderful hobbyists travel to collect fish, they do not bring back 1,000
pairs of fish - they tend to bring back a few pairs in the hopes of
establishing that species in the hobby.  Those are fish that they have
hand-collected and they do have the right to determine who they ask to
breed
the fish.  Only a percentage of those fish are reproduced successfully
in
numbers to introduce to the hobby in general.  I think people tend to
misunderstand the limited scope of the available fish.

  I think too many of the newer folks have a limited realization of this
very different aspect of our hobby vs every other group of fish.
Cichlids
are imported by the thousands - Tetras the same.  Most general hobbyists
have direct access through fish stores to their interests. (I am not
dismissing the fish collected by hobbyists in those groups, but those
are
generally new species vs rare species - not to mention the more
commercial
aspects for those hobbyists).  Once they have developed their hobby to
the
point they are obtaining more difficult species, those fish are still
coming
through a variety of commercial importers.  I can point to folks like
Oliver
Lukanis as one of those sources - commercial importer and collector.  He
sells fish worldwide.

  I don't want to run on for hours on this subject, but I tend to
believe
there are alot less fish in the killifish hobby than people realize.
The
numbers of breeders, the amount of species and the 'experience factors'
all
play into the problem.  Without trying to insult the newer hobbyists,
you
should consider that the fish you want - the legendary species of great
beauty - may simply be in only one or two fishrooms in the hobby and
those
folks are trying to reproduce it - sometimes successfully - sometimes
just
barely maintaining it.  And also keep in mind - once obtained - it
lessens
the desire and can lead to apathy about the original intention and
'your'
complaints.  It is not about ability - it is about historical factors
which
come into play.  With a limitation of active membership and the many
folks
who move in and out of the killie hobby (and that is all hobbies - not
just
the AKA) - there is a hesitation of giving something very rare to
someone
who may not be there a year down the road.

  Now to qualify myself a bit so you do not think I am unwilling to help
new
hobbyists - just looking at the data I have gathered over the years and
explaining some thoughts - my fishroom is open to anyone to visit.  If
there
is a fish in my fishroom someone wants and I have the numbers or am not
working with it - that species goes home with the new hobbyist.  To me,
the
hobby is as much the social aspects at conventions and shows and the
friendships built as it is the breeding.  But I enjoy the challenge of
breeding killies successfully and when I can - work hard at it.

Tom Grady

( I know I know - I've been lurking for a long time without opening my
big
mouth until recently. )


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Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/