RE: [Killietalk] Re:Too many species - Not Enough breeders

["Al Anderson" <killiman at iquest_net>]

If there are any Newbies in The Indianapolis area I am willing to teach or
lead them by their cold clammy wet hands into the hobby of breeding these
tiny at times colorful bait fish. In fact if they come here for three days
and spend 4 hours working and learning about these fish I will give them 5
pairs of   the aforementioned bait fish.


Al Anderson
killiman at iquest_net.


For somebody to touch my life is a privelege,
To touch somebodys life is an honor
but to help others to touch their own life
it is an unspeakable pleasure!

-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
Behalf Of Tom Grady
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:32 PM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: RE: [Killietalk] Re:Too many species - Not Enough breeders

  I am always fascinated by folks wanting the rare fish and the arguments
that ensue, and I have a couple of thoughts to toss out there.

First, I tend to think most people forget an important fact about our
hobby - one that became painfully obvious to me several years ago when I was
building the Species Maintenance Report for the AKA.  There is a limited
number of people breeding saleable/tradeable numbers of fish.  So much is
made about scarcity of fish, but very little is really said about the
paucity of breeders.

Let me put it another way - and this is all rhetorical - questions each of
us should consider.  There are something around 4,000 populations of
killies - nearly 1,000 described species.  There are somewhere around 750
American/Canadian members of the AKA.  I am not going to get into a
statistical debate, but I am willing to bet the numbers of people actually
seriously working with killies on a long term ongoing basis (meaning those
not in and out of the hobby or affected by real life influences which reduce
their hobby time, but remain members) is less than 200, possibly less than
100.  Just look at AKA conventions and that should give an idea of the
relative activity within the hobby - 125-200 attendence on a regular basis.
To me this says alot of those "rare species' may be in the hobby, but
perhaps in only a few fishrooms - and not necessarily the fishrooms of
people currently able to work hard enough to produce the numbers to make the
fish more common in the hobby.

Okay - now lets add to this another factor with a completely different
focus.  When a Brian Watters, Barry Cooper, Peter Tirbak or any number of
wonderful hobbyists travel to collect fish, they do not bring back 1,000
pairs of fish - they tend to bring back a few pairs in the hopes of
establishing that species in the hobby.  Those are fish that they have
hand-collected and they do have the right to determine who they ask to breed
the fish.  Only a percentage of those fish are reproduced successfully in
numbers to introduce to the hobby in general.  I think people tend to
misunderstand the limited scope of the available fish.

  I think too many of the newer folks have a limited realization of this
very different aspect of our hobby vs every other group of fish.  Cichlids
are imported by the thousands - Tetras the same.  Most general hobbyists
have direct access through fish stores to their interests. (I am not
dismissing the fish collected by hobbyists in those groups, but those are
generally new species vs rare species - not to mention the more commercial
aspects for those hobbyists).  Once they have developed their hobby to the
point they are obtaining more difficult species, those fish are still coming
through a variety of commercial importers.  I can point to folks like Oliver
Lukanis as one of those sources - commercial importer and collector.  He
sells fish worldwide.

  I don't want to run on for hours on this subject, but I tend to believe
there are alot less fish in the killifish hobby than people realize.  The
numbers of breeders, the amount of species and the 'experience factors' all
play into the problem.  Without trying to insult the newer hobbyists, you
should consider that the fish you want - the legendary species of great
beauty - may simply be in only one or two fishrooms in the hobby and those
folks are trying to reproduce it - sometimes successfully - sometimes just
barely maintaining it.  And also keep in mind - once obtained - it lessens
the desire and can lead to apathy about the original intention and 'your'
complaints.  It is not about ability - it is about historical factors which
come into play.  With a limitation of active membership and the many folks
who move in and out of the killie hobby (and that is all hobbies - not just
the AKA) - there is a hesitation of giving something very rare to someone
who may not be there a year down the road.

  Now to qualify myself a bit so you do not think I am unwilling to help new
hobbyists - just looking at the data I have gathered over the years and
explaining some thoughts - my fishroom is open to anyone to visit.  If there
is a fish in my fishroom someone wants and I have the numbers or am not
working with it - that species goes home with the new hobbyist.  To me, the
hobby is as much the social aspects at conventions and shows and the
friendships built as it is the breeding.  But I enjoy the challenge of
breeding killies successfully and when I can - work hard at it.

Tom Grady

( I know I know - I've been lurking for a long time without opening my big
mouth until recently. )


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Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/