[Killietalk] Re: [cynolebias] Difficult species - Gnatholebias

[Joe Bulterman <jbulterman at yahoo_com>]

My time spent in Sudan was a disaster from a fishkeeping perspective.  I lost
almost everything due to excessive heat, bad water, and human intervention.  I
can not begin to describe all the wrong things that happended to my fish while
living there.  I have one bag of the "Finca" location that I need to wet, maybe
this weekend - maybe there are eggs.  Want to hear the story?

While I was out collecting (another heartbreaking story), the owner of the
house I was staying in turned off all the fans and air-conditioning to save
electricity.  This was in addition to the daily power outages.  The heat soars
under these conditions and the only survivable fish I know of in water temps
well in excess of 100 degrees F are Discus.  Most of my killi's and eggs
perished.  On top of all this, the owner decided that while I was away, he
wanted to move us into a recently renovated house on the other side of town. 
He had a secret entrance into my apartment and had not-so-honest workers move
out my things.  When they came to move the tables that the fish tanks were on,
the were not careful and the peat containers spilled everywhere in the tanks
making an unbelievable mess for me to come home to.  On my return, I was very
ill and tired and came home to a disaster.  This is the first time I have
written about this experience as it was difficult for me to lose most
everything I has worked for.  
I moved to Dalian,China at the beginning of this year and am trying to get
going again with killi's.  To those of you who have contacted me about fish or
eggs, I was not meaning to be rude by not responding - I simply could not bear
to think about all I had lost.

JoeB

--- Kiril Kardashev <austrofundulus at yahoo_com> wrote:

> 
> Hi Bobby,
> 
> It sound interesting.I'll try your method.
> About breeding - I found that they like mostly to
> spawn in coarse peat, so I always use as a medium,
> mixture of 2 parts of peat and one part of sand. There
> is always  lots of small pebbles, and I'm curious, how
> they not damaged their osculums or what so ever...but
> I always collect more eggs when use this medium.
> 
> Joe Bulterman stll keeping "Finca" population.
> 
> Best wishes
> Kiril
> 
> 
> --- ruevenm at aol_com wrote:
> 
> > Hi Kiril,
> >  
> >    This is very interesting on the zonatus Apure
> > eggs. I had the Apure and the Finca (larger and
> > nicer fish, a more classic zonatus but almost lost
> > in the hobby if not already) zonatus populations and
> > both of them laid eggs that were fully developed in
> > moist peat -- like good moist chocolate cake or to
> > say it another way, I could squeeze a drop of water
> > out of the peat if I pressed a small amount between
> > my thumb and finger -- between 4 and 1/2 and 7
> > months at 80-82F. After 7 months nothing hatched. I
> > once bred zonatus and hoignei in the same tank to
> > see how they interacted. They totally ignored one
> > another and out of the shared peat zonatus started
> > hatching at 5 months but hoignei fry did not appear
> > until 6 and 1/2 months -- and no hybrids whatsoever.
> > I wonder why yours stay clear at 80F after 13 months
> > -- very strange. I wonder if your "moist" is wetter
> > than my idea of moist? My moist peat you can easily
> > fluff but it is not a tan color. It is still dark
> > from moisture. I too hatched zonatus years ago in
> > very dry feeling peat but I have found wetter but
> > fluffed peat to be better for all species over the
> > years.
> >  
> > I fed alot of fruit flies -- maybe 20 per fish. In
> > fry tanks I would pour a 100 + flies easily. They
> > also got alot of mosquito larvae and live daphnia
> > plus the blackworms and brine shrimp. They loved
> > grindal worms too. I was shocked that they ate tiny
> > pellets and even flakes -- salmon flakes -- when
> > young.
> >  
> > I miss them alot. Gnatholebias are the king of the
> > killies -- pure grace and style. Hoignei is
> > stunning.
> >  
> > Bobby
> >  
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kiril Kardashev <austrofundulus at yahoo_com>
> > To: cynolebias at yahoogroups_com
> > Sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:24:22 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: [cynolebias] Difficult species -
> > Gnatholebias
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Bobby et all,
> > 
> > We call some species difficult, cause thay need a
> > lot
> > of attention and special care.
> > 
> > Your example with Gnatholebias species is
> > significant.
> > 
> > 1.They get the food from the top of the water - so
> > you
> > need mosquito larvae(not easy to find), large
> > insects(not easy to find), and fruit flies(as we
> > know
> > Gnatholebias are large species - how much fruit
> > flies
> > you must to have to feeding them twice a day?).
> > 
> > 2. The eggs storage - i keep my Gnatholebias zonatus
> > eggs in 2 different conditions:
> > 
> > a) some of the eggs I storage in moisture peat(as
> > you), at high temperature(26-27 degrees celsium). I
> > check the  peats regulary, and must to say that
> > after
> > 13 months by these conditions, the eggs are still
> > clear. So I'm trying to think, that when
> > Gnatholebias
> > eggs are stored by that way, the composition of the
> > peat is important.
> > 
> > b) some of the eggs I storage in small amount of
> > completely dry peat on the same temperature, and I
> > get
> > 100% healthy frys only on 5 months.(the same
> > conditions works well for Trigonectes).
> > For example: Gnatholebias zonatus "Apure" is found
> > near a farm in a car wheel-tracks in small
> > ammount(about 6-7 cm deep) of muddy water. How long
> > this puddle can survive, and keep moisture then.
> > 
> > 3. Breeding them - here I'm totally agree with you.
> > They spawn the best, when they are in a large group(
> > about 20 fishes). But this require lots of space and
> > large tank(200-300L).
> > 
> > About difficulties. I found A.luteoflammulatus, as
> > one
> > of the most difficult fish to keep(not to breed). I
> > think they really need special care and conditions.
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > Kiril
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- ruevenm at aol_com wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi,
> > >  
> > >    Have to disagree a bit on so-called difficult
> > > species. I think we blame the fish too fast when
> > we
> > > are the problem. Killies are too often treated as
> > > fish that love small tanks, single pairs, poor
> > food
> > > and zero filtration. I think our practices are
> > more
> > > at fault than the fish. How can one keep 30
> > species
> > > going and have the time and tank space to raise
> > the
> > > number of fry it requires to keep healthy
> > population
> > > diversity? I had wonderful success with G. zonatus
> > > and hoignei once I learned 2 things: their
> > > requirements based on their wild environment and a
> > > lot of work. Once I knew the eggs had to be stored
> > > at 80-82F in fairly moist peat and that I should
> > > start hatching zonatus at 5 months and hoignei at
> > 6
> > > -- and not the old 9 months I was on my way. Also,
> > > once I knew they had a big insect diet I could use
> > > alot of fruit flies and chopped blackworms to
> > insure
> > > fertility. I stumbled on the discovery that they
> > > really bred well in big groups and that as big
> > fish
> > > they needed big tanks -- 30 gallon being the
> > > smallest. Also knowing the breeders liked it hot
> > --
> > > 80F -- was a key. Now, with weekly 75% water
> > > changes, twice a day feedings with the core foods
> > > plus other live and frozen foods and even some
> > > micropellets, big tanks, group spawning and warmth
> > > for the eggs and breeders I was able to raise a
> > > bunch of both species easily. Unfortunately, I had
> > a
> > > water problem and distributed the fish out as I
> > was
> > > afriad I would loose them and I no longer have
> > them
> > > but I didn't loose them because they were
> > difficult.
> > > I think if we applied more of a discus sensibility
> > > or even a raising show guppies sensibilty to the
> > > so-called difficult species and each kept fewer
> > > species many of the difficulties would be gone.
> > > LaCorte kept furzeri for 25 years. Someone in the
> > > BKA kept kiwyensis (spelling?) for 30 years. There
> > > are not many species more difficult than those 2.
> > > Those guys just did the work required. Don't blame
> > > the fish. Some killies require effort and the old
> > or
> > > new breeders who make the effort breed the fish.
> > >  
> > > Bobby
> > >  
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kiril Kardashev <austrofundulus at yahoo_com>
> > > To: cynolebias at yahoogroups_com
> > > Sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Subject: Re: [cynolebias] Sell/Trade list
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hello Tyrone,
> > > 
> > > I'm agree. The most of the species we called RARE
> 
=== message truncated ===


Joe Bulterman, CPA/CELTA
Sea Rich College-The Lamont School of Business
No. 79, Xiangyang St., Zhongshan District Dalian
Liaoning Province, P.R. China 116001
0086 1350 079 8946 (Mobil)

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