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Re: [Killietalk] Nitrogen, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia



See below:

Wright Huntley wrote:

Charles Harrison <charles at inkmkr_com> wrote:

At 8:31 PM -0800 11/24/04, Wright Huntley wrote:

>> Hi all, Some recent apparent disagreements, here, prompt me to ask
>> what the definitive answer really is.

>> My understanding is that ammonia (not ammonium ions) and nitrites
>> are toxic to our freshwater fishes. Ammonia damages baby fish gills
>> at levels down around 5-8 ppb (yeah, that's parts per billion),

> And yet our Killies do well in a peat brown water which may be
> several % ammonia/ammonium . . .

I kn ow you mean pH will be low in the para below:

If it is peat brown, the pH is unlikely to be high enough that any
significant fraction is as ammonia, and ammonium ions are as harmless as
chloride ions. [Ammonium/ammonia test kits are likely to measure the adsorbed ammonium/ammonia at the CEC sites, too, which probably cannot harm the fish.]


That said, I never knew about the ammonium in peat, as I always boil and repeatedly rinse my peat and all the ammonium sites are replaced by the Ca and Mg from the harder tap water. :-) The nitrogenous stuff all went down the drain. This seems to keep all the best anti-bacterial qualities of the peat but reduces how "hot" and reactive it is. [Most of the lime added to virtually all agricultural peat, but not on the label, is also washed away.]

Boiling and rinsing peat could remove nitrogenous compounds, some of which may be fertilizer added to peat pellets, if you use those. I am not sure of these ammonia binding sites that are competed for by Ca and Mg ions. What is the evidence for that?

>
> Hydration and hydrolysis and ionization and free reactive molecules
> would answer your questions Wright, along with life form specific
> susceptibilities. So we need ionization constants, dissociation
> constants along with susceptibility to explain all this water
> chemistry.

What would help we non-chemists is a guideline as to when
nitrates become toxic to killies at what temperature. That is what I haven't been able to find. My own experience has been that nitrates are harmless in surprisingly strong doses, as I have ODed planted tanks with KNO3 any number of times without seeing any fish stress. Maybe I failed to notice a reduction in eggs or fertility. I'm not sure.


Nitrates are non-toxic enough that nitrate toxicity is not even discussed in one modern Fish Medicine text that I have.

Forget about nitrates. They will not cause a problem if you are doing normal water changes, which you should be doing for a number of reasons.

Barry

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