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Re: [Killietalk] RE: G. Elson-Where Have All The KilliesGone-Swimbladder problem
All I know is bases on personal experience. I had trouble before using deep
water. I do not have belly sliders now! I followed the directions of a
person who was having good success and it worked. I would have a hard time
believing that fluctuating temperatures would be a factor considering the
natural habitats of the mentioned species.
How inbred is your stock?
Stan Perkins
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Cooper" <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] RE: G. Elson-Where Have All The
KilliesGone-Swimbladder problem
> While hatching is fairly shallow water is commonly used and possibly is
> beneficial, I don't think any benefits are due to the fish being able to
> get to the surface to fill the swim bladder. Some fish have swim bladders
> that are open and can be filled with air from the atmosphere, but most
have
> closed swim bladders and fill it using gas derived from the blood. I would
> have to research which species have open swim bladders, but people have
> done experiments with killie fry to show that they fill the swim bladder
> equally well even when there is no access to surface air, for example when
> the surface is covered by a plastic film, wax, or similar.
>
> Barry
>
> At 11:29 PM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >What depth of water do you use to hatch the eggs? We have found that by
> >reducing the depth of the water to 2 inches or less the fry have fewer
> >problems reaching the surface to fill the swim bladder. My egg hatching
> >tanks are filled to 2 inches of aged aquarium water, java moss, 1-2
> >rams-horn snails and recieve lots of light. I usually inoculate each new
> >set-up with paramecium and rotifers prior to hatching.
> >
> >Stan Perkins
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Koran, David HQ02" <David_Koran at hq02.usace.army.mil>
> >To: <killietalk at aka_org>
> >Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 8:01 AM
> >Subject: [Killietalk] RE: G. Elson-Where Have All The Killies
> >Gone-Swimbladder problem
> >
> >
> > > Gary,
> > >
> > > I have noticed problems with swim bladders in my pupfish efforts.
> >However,
> > > there is a difference in incidence depending on what conditions I rear
the
> > > fry. Most of my efforts with pupfish (Cyprinodons, Cualac and
Aphanius)
> > > plus some Fundulus and Lucania takes place during the summer where I
spawn
> > > fish in a greenhouse-like building attached to my house. Temperatures
> > > fluctuate significantly during the course of the day, something that
> >doesn't
> > > happen to that extent in the relatively constant conditions of my
> >basement.
> > > My summer spawns tend to be much healthier than the ones I
occasionally
> > > produce in the winter indoors. Cyprinodons moreso than a lot of other
> >fish
> > > seem to produce fry that just bump along the bottom for weeks. The
> >tendency
> > > is greater in some species more than others also. But most of the fry
> > > eventually become free swimming but in almost every group there will
be
> >one
> > > or two fry that mature with the swim bladder problem. In the past two
> > > summers I have tracked about 7000 fry through the "system" so I think
I
> >have
> > > a pretty good basis for these observations. However, the "winter"
> >batches
> > > seem to have many more fry with swim bladder issues.
> > >
> > > I am sure that maybe the daily extremes in the greenhouse pick off
many of
> > > the fry unsuitable to survive long term. I do track numbers of fry
but
> >not
> > > until they are about 5 weeks of age and may lose young fish at a rate
of
> > > 0-10% a week depending on group size with respect to container size.
> > > Indoors the loss may not be as great but still the batches to me seem
to
> > > have abnormally greater percentages of fish with swim bladder
problems.
> > >
> > > I don't know if I want to say temperature/environmental extremes cull
or
> > > that lower temperatures impact development or just maybe with few fry
to
> > > attend to one retains more fry and hence retains fish that would
otherwise
> > > succumb to natural environmental stress.
> > >
> > > Dave Koran
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: "M. Frauley and G. Elson" <fraulels at videotron_ca>
> > > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] "Where Have All The Killies Gone"
> > > To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > One observation I'd like to throw in from my experience with half a
> > > dozen populations of wild-caught Aphyosemions (often group spawned) is
> > > that I see a high rate of swim bladder problems with the F-1 (elberti,
> > > and a couple of cameronense). I have never seen this with stock from
> > > other AKAers.
> > > I know I'm doing something wrong, but if they weren't from wild-caught
> > > parents, I'd probably say I had inbred stock. After all, I have no
> > > problem with this "historically" in my fishroom.
> > >
> > > Suspecting inbreeding is easy, but working out my mistakes with the
> > > fish/eggs/fry will likely get me more in the long run. I think we're
> > > sometimes too quick to assume inbreeding is a cause of problems with
our
> > > fish.
> > >
> > > Gary Elson
> > >
> > > To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> > > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> >Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Barry J. Cooper, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Biomedical Sciences, Cornell
University
> Professor, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon State University
> Home address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd., Sweet Home, OR 97386
>
>
> To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/