RE: [Killietalk] RE: Where have all the killies gone?

["Gary Bartell" <garybartell at sprintmail_com>]

  Hi All,

 My $0.02: First I have been against the species maintenance project as it
now stands for several years.

  It is not managed in any way and is of no value to the average killifish
keeper. It has been my personal experience that much data never gets entered
and data that is there is TOP Secret. I had an idea several years ago as
membership chairman to incorporate the collecting of data on who is keeping
what with the membership roster. But when I asked for a copy of the existing
data I was told that members that gave a list of what they were keeping also
did not want anyone else to know who they were or what they were keeping.
With this kind of mentality we have no need for any species maintenance of
any other program dealing with the maintenance of killies.

 The reason that many people do not get involved with these programs is the
grandeur of thinking set forth by those in charge. I for one do not have or
will not have 10 or 20 tanks to devote to a single species. However I can
reply to Dave's question about fish I have and had 3--5-or so years ago. In
many cases I still have them I did lose some we all lose some. I see no need
for the species maintenance program to require a member to devote X number
of tanks to a single species. If a member can and has been able to keep a
species over several years there is no need for X number of tanks.

  The grand scheme of having X number of tanks devoted to a single species
do not take into account that one has to feed and care for all those fish
and then after one has several hundred of them there is no outlet for many
of them. If it is a rare fish new and rare will buy some, if it is a common
fish no one wants them and you end up feeding them until they die or you
feed them to Oscar. Now what the hell was the point of that. But when they
are no longer available because they were too easy or common and are now
lost in the hobby then everyone wants them again. Now would it not be nice
if there was some guy out there that did keep them going because he was not
required to devote many tanks to them only what he had to work with.

  Plain truth is we have TOO many big thinkers with elusions of grandeur.
When what we really need is some realistic thinkers in charge of many of
these programs.

   Gary Bartell

-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces+garybartell=sprintmail_com at aka.org
[mailto:killietalk-bounces+garybartell=sprintmail_com at aka.org]On Behalf
Of Koran, David HQ02
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:22 AM
To: 'killietalk at aka_org'
Subject: [Killietalk] RE: Where have all the killies gone?


At the risk of sounding too simplistic I think Nevin and Brian have just
answered the question of the necessity of the Wild Collections Proposal
advanced by the BOT.  If there is no effort to maintain fish that are
brought back, why is the AKA's throwing money at such trips in the effort to
bring new fish into the hobby going to improve anything?

Both of the observations show that new collections is not necessarily the
answer.  The concept as we practice "species maintenance" doesn't work,
instead of trying to find ways to blow AKA resources on ventures of dubious
return, maybe we need some new concepts that change the landscape of what do
with anything that is brought back.  Is there is simple answer?  Is it as
Brian points out, a lack of capacity to absorb everything?  Is there
something wrong with our husbandry practices?  Do only the fish survive that
are adaptable to the narrow range of conditions we present in our fishrooms?
Do we bottleneck species, subspecies or strains/locations so much that we
create a roadmap for disaster such that few species have enough genetic
adaptability that they can survive for long in being passed from fishroom to
fishroom?  Do we need to establish new or different management units?
Should we set up subgroups such as specialty groups such as a Notho group or
Diapteron group or Epiplatys group whose charter should be more than an
internal swap meet?  Do they look after maintenance of all species
associated with the group and not just KCC targeted species?  Do they
enlarge their horizons and follow land use trends and habitat pressures in
the countries from where the species in that group originate?  Do they
determine need to recollect?  Do they worry about acquisition/reacquisition?
Do they partner with N&RSC to bring fish in or provide fish to N&RSC?

And one last gasp, are there sufficient marketplaces for killies?  Or is
this the problem?  Do we produce too much and therefore devalue practice of
keeping a species going within our restricted resource base?  (Fritos
principle as stated by Jay Leno -- Don't worry, we'll make more!)  Do you
have any answer to why you personally keep killies?  Do you really intend to
do anything with the killies you have (note I did not say that you
maintain)?  Do you really maintain anything?  Do you have a plan for the
fish you currently have?  How much of what you have now did you have 2, 3 or
5 years ago?  Can you explain to your own satisfaction why you no longer
have this or that?  Do I have to quote Pogo -- WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE
IS US!

Cheers!!!

Dave Koran

To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/


To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/