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[Killietalk] Re: "Where have all the killies gone"
Hi all, I just want to make a couple of comments about
where the killies are going. This subject is often
discussed by many familiar people in our organization.
It is obvious that we all care about this, but one
fundemental problem exists that can be identified as
the root problem: New members. As has been pointed out
at local affiliate club meetings, we are becoming a
social club and are fufilling the aims of the
organization only in part. I am confident in saying
that we are not attracting serious new killifish
breeders to the AKA. That is why there are not enough
tanks in the organization to support high influxes of
new, wild specimens from anyones collecting trips. The
question of sponsored collections is not the problem.
Ofcourse there are good arguments pro and con, but it
does not solve the apparent apathy that I am hearing
about how we, as a group, keep fish going. I really
dont know what the answer is, but I sincerely believe
that it is new blood in membership combined with new
and existing blood in fish that will keep us going in
the right direction. As soon as we start saying who
is allowed to have what and start writing contracts to
keep certain fish, in approved groups, we will no
longer have a club. When I say that, please dont get
me wrong. I also think that you should really want
the fish before you buy/obtain it. I always ask
myself: Do I want to keep this fish for the long term?
Mark Delraso
--- killietalk-request at aka_org wrote:
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> > Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Fwd: Activated Carbon/Charcoal (Barry Cooper)
> 2. Fwd: Please update your software (Barry
> Cooper)
> 3. Re: New and Rare Species Committee (george
> morris)
> 4. Re: "Where Have All The Killies Gone" (George
> & Melanie)
> 5. RE: "Where Have All The Killies Gone" (Brian
> R. Watters)
> 6. RE: "Where Have All The Killies Gone" (Kray,
> Edd)
> 7. RE: Fwd: Re: [Killietalk] Linear air pump
> (James Randall)
> 8. RE: "Where Have All The Killies Gone"
> (listhub at libros_andante.mn.org)
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.1 message/rfc822
> From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
> Subject: [Killietalk] Fwd: Activated Carbon/Charcoal
> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:24:35 -0800
> To: "killietalk at aka_org" <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> Forwareded message:
>
> >Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:22:49 -0500
> >X-PH: V4_1 at mailhub2
> >To: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at cornell_edu>
> >From: Ken Simolo <Simolo at chem_chem.rochester.edu>
> >Subject: Activated Carbon/Charcoal
> >
> >A good source for inexpensive activated
> carbon/charcoal is your local
> >water conditioning sellers (Culligan, etc.). I
> chlorinate my well water
> >(since we have high levels of iron bacteria) and
> then run the water
> >through a whole house charcoal canister (~ 16" x
> 48"). The charcoal in
> >that large of a cylinder lasts 2 or more years even
> though all the house
> >water goes through it. I could not afford it if I
> was paying LFS prices!
> >
> >Ken
>
>
_____________________________________________________________
> Barry J. Cooper, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Biomedical
> Sciences, Cornell University
> Professor, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon
> State University
> Home address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd., Sweet Home, OR
> 97386
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.2 message/rfc822
> From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at centurytel_net>
> Subject: [Killietalk] Fwd: Please update your
> software
> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:22:41 -0800
> To: "killietalk at aka_org" <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> Below is a forwarded message from Ken Simolo,
> co-admin of the killietalk
> list. Please note that Ken is referring to bounced
> messages that contain
> the MyDoom virus. They are NOT getting through to
> killietalk. Symantec has
> a utility to look for and remove this worm at
>
http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32_novarg.a at mm.removal.tool.html
>
> Barry
>
>
> >Due to the outbreak of the MyDoom virus in the last
> few days, the
> >KillieTalk server is getting bombarded with bounced
> messages which contain
> >the virus. Please make sure that your virus
> protection software has been
> >updated in the last day or two.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Ken
>
>
_____________________________________________________________
> Barry J. Cooper, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Biomedical
> Sciences, Cornell University
> Professor, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon
> State University
> Home address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd., Sweet Home, OR
> 97386
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.3 message/rfc822
> From: "george morris" <mikron7 at earthlink_net>
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] New and Rare Species
> Committee
> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 19:23:08 -0600
> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> Hi Brian. We talked about me sending you
> Nothobranchius sp. Motokeri and N.
> symoensi for the New and Rare Species Comittee. I
> have raised a few pairs,
> but not the numbers I had hoped for and expected.
> I'll keep working on
> them, but I don't know if I'll have very many this
> year. Maybe by August.
> Regards,
> George Morris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Perkins" <btec11 at comcast_net>
> To: <killietalk at aka_org>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:36 PM
> Subject: [Killietalk] New and Rare Species Committee
>
>
> > All,
> >
> > If you remember in my initial BNL listing last
> October, I suggested that
> > a few of you might utilize the NRSC as a
> time/effort saver (and a way to
> > support your AKA) by breeding up those Rare fish
> of yours and selling
> > the lot to this committee for subsequent
> re-distribution to the entire
> > membership. If you are still on track towards this
> goal, I'd like to
> > hear from you now as I prepare for the Spring
> listing/ AKA convention,
> > etc. I am in search of the wild, the weird, the
> wonderful, the truly
> > rare and unusual fish or eggs that NEEDS to get
> out to the AKA
> > membership!!! Please contact me off-list as soon
> as possible.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > American Killifish Association- New and Rare
> Species Committee
> >
> > Brian Perkins, Chairman
> > West Linn, OR
> > 503-650-2943: Voice
> > 503-421-4271: Cell
> > 503-650-2943: Fax
> > btec11 AT comcast DOT net
> >
> >
> >
> > To join the AKA see
> http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.4 message/rfc822
> From: George & Melanie <caraway at erienet_net>
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] "Where Have All The
> Killies Gone"
> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:54:42 -0600
> To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> I was not fortunate enough to obtain any of these
> species but it would
> be a shame to have brought them and back and
> thenhave any of them be
> lost from the hobby. Perhaps it may be possible in
> the future when such
> collections are made and then distributed to others,
> a log could be kept
> as a means of who the fish were distributed to and
> then tracking their
> progress in the future would be easier. It may also
> be possible in
> cases like this where the fish are quite unique that
> the person
> receiving the fish agree to do a follow up report in
> a year or so just
> to be able to track the progress.
> I know this means extra work for all but it may make
> future tracking easier.
> Just a thought,
> George
>
> Aspinwalln at aol_com wrote:
>
> >At the suggestion of Wright Huntley I would like to
> start a new discussion
> >thread entitled "Where Have All The Killies Gone".
> >In 1998, Jack Heller, Tomas Hrbek, and I brought
> back a sizeable collection
> >of killies from Cameroon some of which we
> propagated and distributed widely to
> >the hobby. These killies are referenced as "HAH
> 98". All of us are concerned
> >about maintaining killies in the hobby. We are all
> familiar with the scenario
> >of a given rare species/location becoming hot,
> then becoming widely
> >distributed, then becoming common, then falling out
> of favor, and then disappearing from
> >the hobby. Once a given species/location become
> extirpated in the hobby it
> >necessitates someone going back to Cameroon or
> elsewhere and re-collecting-- a
> >very expensive proposition. In my one trip to
> Cameroon and three trips to
> >Gabon, I have spent about $5,000 per trip.
> >So, I would like to conduct a survey of killie
> keepers on the Web to see how
> >many of our collections are still extant in the
> hobby. So, what follows below
> >is a partial list of the species that we
> distributed from our 1998 Cameroon
> >collecting trip. (I am not listing the various
> species/locations of
> >Chromaphyosemions). I would ask that anyone who
> has one or more of these locations to
> >respond to this email. I will keep track of the
> data and will summarize it
> >shortly. To show that I, myself, am far from
> perfect in maintaining killies in the
> >hobby, I report that of the 12 species/ locations
> listed below I am presently
> >maintaining only four of them after 5
> years............Here goes.............
> >
> >Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Nfeitok HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Nguti HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Bakebe HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Ayong HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax mirabilsi moense Ayong II HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax cinnamoneum Bolo Moboka HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax gardneri lacustris Lake Ejagham HAH
> 98
> >Fundulopanchax gardneri mamfensis Eyumojock HAH 98
> >Fundulopanchax gardneri mamfensis Ebinsi HAH 98
> >Aphyosemion raddai Eseka Road HAH 98
> >Aphyosemion cameronense halleri Ambam HAH 98
> >Aphyosemion cameronense cameronense Nsessoum HAH 98
> >
> >Any comments about this survey and about species
> maintainence would be
> >welcome.
> >Nevin in St. Louis
> >
> >To join the AKA see
> http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> >Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.5 message/rfc822
> From: "Brian R. Watters" <bwatters at sasktel_net>
> Subject: RE: [Killietalk] "Where Have All The
> Killies Gone"
> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 21:16:31 -0600
> To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> Nevin Aspinwall wrote:
>
> >
> > At the suggestion of Wright Huntley I would like
> to start a new
> > discussion
> > thread entitled "Where Have All The Killies Gone".
> > In 1998, Jack Heller, Tomas Hrbek, and I brought
> back a sizeable
> > collection
> > of killies from Cameroon some of which we
> propagated and
> > distributed widely to
> > the hobby. These killies are referenced as "HAH
> 98". All of us
> > are concerned
> > about maintaining killies in the hobby. We are all
> familiar with
> > the scenario
> > of a given rare species/location becoming hot,
> then becoming widely
> > distributed, then becoming common, then falling
> out of favor, and
> > then disappearing from
> > the hobby. Once a given species/location become
> extirpated in the
> > hobby it
> > necessitates someone going back to Cameroon or
> elsewhere and
> > re-collecting-- a
> > very expensive proposition. In my one trip to
> Cameroon and three trips to
> > Gabon, I have spent about $5,000 per trip.
> > So, I would like to conduct a survey of killie
> keepers on the Web
> > to see how
> > many of our collections are still extant in the
> hobby......
> >
>
> Nevin, you raise an interesting and valid point but
> there really is no
> mystery to this. The hobby has a finite capacity and
> can support only a
> certain number of species, new or old, it doesn't
> matter. There simply are
> not enough hobbyists and tanks out there to support
> all the species and
> populations that have been coming into the hobby in
> recent years. Also, with
> such a variety available on an almost on-going
> basis, hobbyists tend to move
> from one new species to the next. The result of this
> is that many
> species/populations simply get left out and
> eventually become lost in the
> hobby.
>
> I have had the same experience as you but on an even
> larger scale. With a
> variety of colleagues and sometimes on my own, I
> have carried out more than
> 25 field/collecting trips and, at a rough count have
> brought back specimens
> of about 400 species/populations of Nothos and over
> a 100 of lampeyes (I
> have also documented many more localities where I
> did not retain any
> specimens). I would guess that I have, to various
> extents, introduced
> perhaps 60-70% of those into the hobby. I could ask
> the same question -
> where are they all now ? However, I know the answer
> - if one adds up all the
> Notho keepers in the AKA (plus all the other Killie
> groups if you like)
> there simply aren't enough of them to maintain all
> those
> species/populations. I have often been asked why
> then do I bother to bring
> them back. My reasons are varied and I won't go into
> that here but,
> primarily it is for research and photographic
> documentation. These days, I
> actually introduce into the hobby a lesser
> proportion (than I used to) of
> the fish I bring back, for the reasons mentioned
> above.
>
> In my opinion, if one's primary objective in making
> a collecting trip is to
> introduce species/populations into the hobby, then
> one will be wasting
> substantial resources and be sorely disappointed by
> the outcome even over
> the short term. Perhaps I am overdramatizing it but
> one might also be doing
> the hobby a disservice in that it will become even
> more overloaded with
> fish.
> ___________________________________________
> Brian R. Watters
> University of Regina
> Regina, Sask. S4S 0A2, Canada
> Ph: (306) 584-9161 (home); (306) 585-4663 (work)
> Fax: (306) 585-5433
> E-mail: bwatters at sasktel_net
>
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.6 message/rfc822
> From: "Kray, Edd" <Edd_Kray at rf.doe.gov>
> Subject: RE: [Killietalk] "Where Have All The
> Killies Gone"
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 06:02:10 -0700
> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> Nevein,
>
> Mirabilis moensis Bakabe is found in good numbers in
> my fish room.
>
> BUT, the strain has a serious genetic abnormality
> with MANY (over 50%)
> of the young appearing with very bent spines. I
> would believe that we
> NEED new stock in order to breed out this bad gene.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aspinwalln at aol_com [mailto:Aspinwalln at aol_com]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:00 PM
> To: killietalk at aka_org
> Cc: Aspinwalln at slu_edu
> Subject: [Killietalk] "Where Have All The Killies
> Gone"
>
> At the suggestion of Wright Huntley I would like to
> start a new
> discussion
> thread entitled "Where Have All The Killies Gone".
> In 1998, Jack Heller, Tomas Hrbek, and I brought
> back a sizeable
> collection
> of killies from Cameroon some of which we propagated
> and distributed
> widely to
> the hobby. These killies are referenced as "HAH 98".
> All of us are
> concerned
> about maintaining killies in the hobby. We are all
> familiar with the
> scenario
> of a given rare species/location becoming hot, then
> becoming widely
> distributed, then becoming common, then falling out
> of favor, and then
> disappearing from
> the hobby. Once a given species/location become
> extirpated in the hobby
> it
> necessitates someone going back to Cameroon or
> elsewhere and
> re-collecting-- a
> very expensive proposition. In my one trip to
> Cameroon and three trips
> to
> Gabon, I have spent about $5,000 per trip.
> So, I would like to conduct a survey of killie
> keepers on the Web to see
> how
> many of our collections are still extant in the
> hobby. So, what follows
> below
> is a partial list of the species that we distributed
> from our 1998
> Cameroon
> collecting trip. (I am not listing the various
> species/locations of
> Chromaphyosemions). I would ask that anyone who has
> one or more of
> these locations to
> respond to this email. I will keep track of the data
> and will summarize
> it
> shortly. To show that I, myself, am far from perfect
> in maintaining
> killies in the
> hobby, I report that of the 12 species/ locations
> listed below I am
> presently
> maintaining only four of them after 5
> years............Here
> goes.............
>
> Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Nfeitok HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Nguti HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Bakebe HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax mirabilis moense Ayong HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax mirabilsi moense Ayong II HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax cinnamoneum Bolo Moboka HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax gardneri lacustris Lake Ejagham HAH
> 98
> Fundulopanchax gardneri mamfensis Eyumojock HAH 98
> Fundulopanchax gardneri mamfensis Ebinsi HAH 98
> Aphyosemion raddai Eseka Road HAH 98
> Aphyosemion cameronense halleri Ambam HAH 98
> Aphyosemion cameronense cameronense Nsessoum HAH 98
>
> Any comments about this survey and about species
> maintainence would be
> welcome.
> Nevin in St. Louis
>
> To join the AKA see
> http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.7 message/rfc822
> From: "James Randall" <rover1043 at msn_com>
> Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: [Killietalk] Linear air pump
> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:30:24 -0500
> To: killietalk at aka_org
>
> Hi all,The discription says it is a vacuum pump so
> I'm not sure it is good
> for an air pump.
> Jim Randall AKA08169,BKA525-01,SAA133 in scenic
> upstate NY.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @
> MSN.
> http://wine.msn.com/
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 3.8 message/rfc822
> From: listhub at libros_andante.mn.org
> Subject: RE: [Killietalk] "Where Have All The
> Killies Gone"
> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:42:27 -0600 (CST)
> To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> On 04-Feb-04 Brian R. Watters wrote:
> > However, I know the answer - if one adds up all
> the
> > Notho keepers in the AKA (plus all the other
> Killie groups if you like)
> > there simply aren't enough of them to maintain all
> those
> > species/populations. I have often been asked why
> then do I bother to bring
> > them back. My reasons are varied and I won't go
> into that here but,
> > primarily it is for research and photographic
> documentation. These days, I
> > actually introduce into the hobby a lesser
> proportion (than I used to) of
> > the fish I bring back, for the reasons mentioned
> above.
> >
> This comment brings up a question that has floated
> in my head for the past 4
> year, since I got really bit by the Notho bug.
>
> Has anyone tried any form of suspended elongated
> period storage for the
> diapause eggs of Nothobranchius. I know there is no
> comparison, but when I
> was doing my Thesis work at Cornell we had a huge
> -80 C vat that was maintained
> with liquid Nitrogen. E. coli strains which with we
> where working would be
> suspended in a Glycerin solution and be viable for
> up to three to four years.
> As I progressed up the evolutionary chain and
> started doing Molecular Biology
> with Drosophila development there where tricks to
> take 12 to 24 hour fly eggs
> and put them in suspension for about two months.
> Drosophila does not go
> through a diapause per sae but there is a slight
> suspension in metabolism
> during instar periods and again at pupation.
>
> It would sure be nice to have a repository of
> Nothobranchius locations able to
> be tapped on at will.
>
> I certainly understand that this is well beyond the
> subject of normal home
> hobby fish care but I thought I would try to draw
> you out one it.
>
> Peace
> john
> ------------------------------------
> John N. Alegre o
> Andante Systems o
> eCommerce Consulting o
> Custom Web Development <*{{{{}><
> ------------------------------------
> AKA, BKA, CKA, IBC
> MKKA (Minnesota Killie Keepers Association)
> WAKO (Wisconsin Area Killifish Association)
> MAS (Minnesota Aquarium Society)
> -------------------------------------------
> >
> To join the AKA see
> http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
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