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RE: [Killietalk] Cloromine (sic), (sic)
Scott Davis wrote:
to St Louis may not apply to the majority of the rest of the US.
One question on this chloramines controversy. How does the rather
aberrant pH of St Louis water effect this situation ? I recall that the
pH there is close to 9. Doesn't this effectively reduce the toxity of
the ammonia released by the hypo. Whereas in a situation with more
normal pH (7), the ammonia might be a real problem. So experience unique
There is no question that charcoal is best for removing covalent
compounds like Chlorine and Chloramine and many bad agriculture
chemicals. No dispute here. I attribute much of the present day
success of hobbyists to the use of RO units, not because of the use
of softer water but to fact that even the waste water goes through
the charcoal and the Chlorine/Chloramine is removed. This has to be
The affects of Ammonia may well be documented, the % of this gas at
the pH's we keep our fish is trivial. I will leave it up to
statistics as to the most important effect, pH or dissolved gas.
Hypo (Thiosulfate) does a great job of removing the Chlorine/Chloramine.
Amquel and other similar Chlorine removers do a good job as well.
None of these compounds effectively reacts with Ammonia to change the
valence state to produce Nitrogen or Nitrates. They complex with the
NH3+ and then decompose to slowly release the Ammonium ions back
into the solution.
pH controls the presence of Ammonia as long as Ammonium ions are
present. Ammonium is dangerous at high pH's and Nitrites are
dangerous at low pH's.
The higher pH's allow the equilibrium to shift toward the gas,
Ammonia. Lower pH's are more safe until it gets low enough to release
Nitrous acid into the water. pH swings may not be the total cause of
the problems which Mr. Huntley's refers to, but are most likely the
things which have caused the release of harmful compounds in the
water in question. Very soft water is much more susceptible to pH
swings since there is little or no buffering.
What is different about St Louis water?
I don't know of any real differences. High pH's are used by
the water supply Co's to keep the Chloramine more stable and aid in
dropping the hardness and turbidity of the river water. Back in Texas
the same thing was useful to drop the same things with lake water.
Ask around in the Municipal Water purification plants in Chicago. My
data from them is all about the same.
IDK what did the harm to the fishes Mr Huntley is speaking of, but I
doubt it was Ammonium ions.
I think this discussion could go on and on, I will propose a test, I
will set up a 5 gal tank of A. australes, get them stable and eating
settled in, etc. and then over a period of 2 weeks add Ammonium
Chloride to their water until it kills them and see just what is the
lethal 50% dose.
Will that settle the question??
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