Re: Chloramine is not chlorine (was Re: [Killietalk] Drip emiters vs. valves)

[George & Melanie <caraway at erienet_net>]

Sorry , but I tend to be less critical in the use of my words and often 
speak in general terms. Chlorine or chloramine really are the same for 
me. I can only speak of my past 30 some years of experience raising 
fish. I often am not as learned as others. When I comment on someones 
email My comments are usually based on my past experiences. That is all 
I have to go on.
George

Wright Huntley wrote:

> George,
>
> Sorry if I sound like a cracked record, here, but we do *not* have 
> chlorine in our water, in the vast bulk of the US!
>
> George & Melanie wrote:
>
> > I am sure water quality varies per local, 
>
>
> Not as much as it used to, before EPA mandated that some ammonium be 
> added to the chlorine to form the more-stable chloramine in almost all 
> community water supplies. It's a simple, cheap change that reduces 
> cancer. [Unfortunately it has other effects on fish.]
>
>
> > but when you are talking of a partial water change I am not sure how 
> > critiacal it is to have 100 percent of the chlorine removed. 
>
>
> IMHO, it is far more important to have no *chloramine*, as it has 
> proven to cause severe reproductive problems in killifish at 
> sub-lethal dose levels. [IDK that chlorine ever did that.]
>
>
> > If you live in a area that has such a high concentration of chlorine 
> > in your water mild aeration may help in the chlorine removal. 
>
>
> Most unlikely, any more, George. Test, before and after. If the 
> chlorine reading was reduced, you don't have chloramine. If not, you 
> do. You need to run this test every single time, because EPA 
> compliance is sometimes spotty, and local districts are notorious for 
> not warning customers when they change over to chloramine (i.e., start 
> to add a little bit of ammonium).
>
>
> > In all cases common sense prevails.
>
>
> My point, exactly.
>
> Wright
>
> > Wright Huntley wrote:
> >
> > > George,
> > >
> > > George & Melanie wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sounds like you need a water storage drum in your garage. You could 
> > > > fill that drum from your outside hose. Then let the water  sit for 
> > > > a day or two. This will let the chlorine disapate ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is almost no place left in this country, where the chlorine 
> > > will dissipate in a "day or two." The typical half-life, now that 
> > > they have learned to add a bit of ammonium is much more like 5 weeks.
> > >
> > > I don't mean to disparage your advice, but I feel it is dangerous to 
> > > let anyone think we are still living in the era when chlorine (not 
> > > chloramine) was the disinfectant of choice. Once they found that it 
> > > caused carcinogenic compounds, there has been a strong campaign by 
> > > EPA to convert *every* municipal water source to chloramine. It 
> > > won't dissipate, and using hypo or other old-fashioned dechlor 
> > > products will produce a deadly burst of ammonium/ammonia. If pH is 
> > > above about 7.5 (also EPA mandated), look out!
> > >
> > > You have to live in a mighty rural area to still have chlorine as 
> > > the primary disinfectant. In my situation I have none, but one or 
> > > two wells in the Bishop area still test high enough for bacteria 
> > > that they do use it. [I'll be surprised if they get through this 
> > > year without adding enough ammonium to form chloramine, tho.]
> > >
> > > The best is to be aware and to test and read your water reports. The 
> > > big problem is that lethal levels of ammonia are way below the 
> > > minimum reading of the test kits we can afford. If in doubt, it is 
> > > safest to assume that chloramine is present, and act accordingly.
> > >
> > > Wright




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