In a message dated 2/1/04 9:42:23 AM, LeeH920226 at aol_com writes: << I made the first one with a five foot length of 1-1/4 inch PVC pipe >> I forgot to mention that there is a picture at http://www.aka.org/Members_only/members_gallery/album10/carbon Lee Harper Media, PA To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/pages/join.html Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/