Re: [Killietalk] Re: Poly Filter

["Bill Shenefelt" <william_shenefelt at verizon.net>]

There is a lot of speculation outside of the reality of the conditions
surrounding my losses, so to provide the facts:.

1) The fish were purged for two full days

2) the water in the bags was 80% tank water and 20% Fresh RO (with addition
of RO right  to match tank TDS, and "Proper pH 6.5" to prevent ammonia
problems should they occur despite purging.) This 20% I add when bagging.

3) All fish were bagged in this manner with plenty of water since ease of
conditioning, not mailing weight costs was my main concern for any buyer.

4) All fish except Diapterons and elberti were bagged on Thursday.  Those
were bagged Friday about 6 AM (Diapterons died by 8 PM Friday)

5) All fish were in 3 1/2 inch bags with about 1 1/2 inches of water, except
for the fallax in 4 inch bags with 2 inches of water

 The above are the conditions for all bags, now the differences:

1) The fallax (three trios),  Diapterons (four pair), elberti (two trios)
and ansorgii (three pair) were not purged in a separate container from their
living quarters.  Losses began on Friday evening.   I stopped feeding those
tanks after Monday Night; Therefore I used the Poly Filter as insurance
(All lost *  )
 *except for a surviving elberti with poly filter removed and  I have not
heard from two of the fallax buyers, but I did lose a female from each of
their trios before the fishroom sale

2) The ogoense 80-23 and 80-24 (three pairs each) were stored in separate
"Critter Carriers" for the 2 day (Tuesday-Wednesday) purge.          (No
losses)

3) The congicum and Epiplatys chaperi (three pair each) were not stored in a
separate tank for purging but were near adult size(and strength) and I did
not use polyfilter.      (No losses)

One poly filter fish, although swimming erratically in the bag(young elberti
male),  recovered after I removed the polyfilter and added water and
survived .         (He is still fine).

The Poly Filter was unopened until Thursday when I began bagging.  I used it
since I had used some from other new sleeves in fry boxes and tanks in the
past with no bad results   I felt it might help for a 5 day bag confinement
assuming some fish may have found something in their tank despite non
feeding, and the young Diapterons, elberti and ansorgii were assumed a bit
more sensitive than larger fish. Also the fallax are big, even for a 4 inch
bag.

So:

1) We are not talking ammonia release or re-release (pH 6.5 stabilized)

2) We are not talking used or unused unsealed poly filter material-Brand new
unopened pouch.

3) No bags had any appearance of poor water quality or fouling to any degree
The water I added to the surviving elberti was from the container of water I
prepared as "change-stabilizing water" and added 20 % to the other bags, so
it was good.

Other than the use of the Poly Filter, the fish were prepared and bagged as
I normally do for shipping.  Rarely have I lost any fish in a 3 to 6 day
shipment (except those cooked on the way to California and several  pr of
Diapterons cooked on the way to Hawaii this spring).  Other than this time
using Poly Filter, I have lost maybe a half dozen fish total in about 250
shipments this past 4 years, plus about 200 prs to fishroom/box sales..
Other than a few post receipt jumpers, my recipients have not reported many
early losses either, so they have arrived quite healthy.
I am taking a piece of the remaining Poly Filter material to Hank Marzina
tomorrow for a test run with a fish to see what happens.

Either this stuff when in confinement with a fish in a small bag removes
something essential for the fish or this batch of Poly Filter was somehow
contaminated within the sealed plastic sleeve.  Were temperature fluctuation
a problem, the water would have had to be bad to begin with and other fish
did just fine.
In either case, it is the last of use for shipping or in confinement with
Poly Filter for me. I am sure it is a fine product, but not so sure I would
ever use it again in a small amount of water in a killie bag.
As for "Amquel"(the blue stuff??), it yields an outrageous TDS meter reading
due probably to salt content, making matching receipt water a wild guess
hampering careful  conditioning, and "Ammolock" DOES release temporarily
tied up ammonia, so I never use either..

Bill Shenefelt
http://shene.killi.net

>
> In a message dated 9/3/03 9:10:11 AM, YoHoHo at aol_com writes:
>
> << do the types of absorbent materials and resins sold in the
> hobby ever leach back the chemicals they have picked up, or do they
> simply reach their 'capacity' and cease to function? >>
>
> That is an excellent question. Certainly saturation is reached and no more
> benefit is achieved regardless of the type. If a chemical reaction occurs
(as
> with Amquel) the chlorine or ammonia is no longer there as chlorine or
ammonia
> and cannot return. If it is absorbed by surface absorption or ionic
attraction
> as is the case with Polyfilter, it can reach a state of equilibrium and if
> something (like temperature change) shifts that equilibrium it can be
returned to
> the water. Which leads to another hypothesis about Bill Shenefelt's
> experience. Perhaps, the bags were cooler and the Polyfilter was capable
of holding
> more ammonia. Then when the purchaser put them in a nice warm car to bring
them
> home the Polyfilter released the ammonia (some of it anyway).
>
> Lee Harper
> Media, PA
> USA
>
>
>