FW: On Line Listing

[David_Koran at HQ02.USACE.ARMY.MIL]

As I have read many of the posts about on-line auctions and the F&E Listing
pros and cons the one issue which most troubled me is the part that neglects
or places very little value on the BNL.  From two perspectives as Chairman
of the AKA in 1981 and 2002, running the AKA is about covering expenses with
dues.

In 1981 there was no internet and long distance phone costs were still
pretty high, and the BOT's focus was covering expected publications with our
dues and we fell short.  Even though we raised dues to nearly $20, it still
cost us $22 to service each member and we had to rely on Convention proceeds
to balance our budget.  Maybe we felt the BNL was essential and I think it
still is.  Getting it out on time and not impacting the F&E Listing was an
issue then as it is today.  But you have to look at what it is, a newsletter
not a trading post.  It has information about shows, business of the AKA,
literature or publications for sale and addresses (or changes) of new
members.  Maybe you can get all of that on line today but still not everyone
can nor do they often choose this route.  As I pointed out previously in
another post, I haven't had a computer operational at home for almost a year
and miss it very little -- I actual get more work done at home and am
breeding many more fish than I was in the previous 7-8 years after I first
connected to the internet.

Last year our dues income pretty much balanced our cost for getting out JAKA
and the BNL's.  We have  not had a Convention in trouble for some time and
the AKA appears to be financially well off.  In this age of internet traffic
we still need to reach every member and the newsletter serves that function.
Criticism comes from the timeliness issue and I pointed out that it has been
a problem for over 20 years.  However, we really do a damn poor job of
breeding the fish we are given and passing them on.  While I would like to
think otherwise, few of us have the capacity to take on more than what we
are handling now.  The old adage that our eyes are bigger than our stomach
is probably in play but as weight statistics show we are trying damn hard to
overcome that statement.

People have always thought there is a better way to handle killies.  In 1981
a guy from upstate New York called to tell me that the days of the AKA were
numbered because all people wanted to do was exchange fish and didn't want
to burden by monthly mailing of literature and that the Breeder's Guild was
the wave of the future for killies.  You can answer the question of where is
the Breeder's Guild today....  I have heard folks say that we need to be
more like AquaBid but is there more than a dozen or so people offering fish
on it on a regular basis?

Many of us have been around this hobby long enough to have either thought or
heard from another the idea or reason to purchase a particular fish was to
reproduce it and develop an advantageous position.  That is to either then
be able to reap large profit from the offsprings or use it to trade for
other desirable species.  This thought process usually stops at thinking one
will have large amounts of money, they will be able to finance one's hobby
as a business or develop this "collection" of killies that every one will
oogle at!  How much of this really works?

If you want to consider an auction format realize again that you are not
dealing with books, CD's or other dry goods.  At a live auction its buyer
beware, you are stuck with what you buy -- there are no refunds only that if
you intend on being a serious seller in the future you need to protect your
reputation.  When I lived in St. Louis I got turned off by your local
tropical fish stores and rarely patronize them.  Many shops had an attitude
that would rarely see a customer again and figured they would take advantage
of them that one opportunity since they figured their customer base was
endless.  As Barry has pointed out, our goal is to promote the hobby, not
promote profit for members or be commercial.  An auction format just sends
the wrong message.

The one issue where this might be positive is the AKA trolling to catch new
members.  However, finding an on-line auction is often like finding killies
in a K-Mart or Wal-Mart pet department, it might be a killie but the quality
is unknown and the price is probably way too high.  Would that interaction
be a good one to "convert" the casual buyer into a killie enthusiast?

We are only limited in the BNL by the weight of the paper on which it is
printed (meaning usually a 16 page issue) to keep us under the postage
weight limit imposed by our budget.  It usually means that there could be
more material in most BNL's but often not enough is submitted.  That means
that the F&E Listing could also be more extensive.  I don't see anything
wrong with simple listings stating buying killies or selling Nothos, etc.,
listing your name, AKA number, a phone number and/or an e-mail address set
up in the monthly F&E Listing.  Nor is there any restriction on contacting
someone listing fish (or requesting fish) and contacting them directly
either by phone or e-mail to see what they might also have available or
want.  This requires a little more work on the part of the buyer/initiator
but realize today you want to be spoiled and have what you want dropped into
your lap.  Remember, it does take some effort to produce the fish in the
first place.

If you want to do something to offer fish up to the public in general on the
AKA website why not allow a small group of individuals to be the providers.
They control most aspects of the listing (species and price although a split
might be in order).  To determine who gets this privilege make it a
competition--maybe the top three finishers in the KEY competition and top
three points earners in the yearly KAP activities and/or another
category/categories as determined by the BOT (possibly in the KEY area the
high totals earned only on fish offered for sale at the shows).  To sell to
the public in general with the AKA's backing you need to do things to
improve the hobby and support your fellow members and/or clubs.  Maybe
participation in shipments to other Affiliate Club auctions is also a
category.

My bottom line message is we are not an Ebay or a Sears.  We are in this to
promote the hobby.  We have a newsletter to promote the hobby and foster
communication and member participation.  The F&E listing is not intended to
be only a selling tool but really a basis for us to interact with one
another.  The concept of a on-line fish listing should be like a classified
section where we need to investigate further, not a candy store to satisfy a
need for instant gratification.  Finally, remember our tank space is
finite--if all these fish suddenly become available can you really
accommodate them effectively?

Dave Koran



-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Cooper [mailto:bjc3 at cornell_edu]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:57 PM
To: killietalk at AKA_Org
Subject: Re: On Line Listing


The discussion of online F&EL and BNL has certainly been animated this time 
around. There are some quite polarized views. Let's make sure that in the 
heat of the moment we don't make our arguments so passionate as to sound 
angry and even confrontational.

I believe that the BOT has listened to these points of view and that their 
discussion of them will be revitalized. I think Catherine's earlier post 
suggested that they are willing to search for solutions that give everyone 
at least some satisfaction. I suggest we tone down the discussion a bit now 
and wait from some response from the BOT.

Regarding opt-in and opt-out possibilities for the BNL, I would be 
concerned that it might actually increase costs to the AKA. A reduction in 
the print run would almost certainly cost more per issue. A large increase 
in the content on our site eventually would require more disk space, 
costing more. I suggest that we allow the BOT to address the most pressing 
need first, and I believe that many members feel that is to have some form 
of listing fish online, particularly to help those members who have limited 
quantities to list. Having an alternative online BNL is a separate issue 
and considering that will only make the discussion messy. Let's take things 
one step at a time.

Barry

Barry J. Cooper, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Biomedical Sciences, Cornell
University
Adjunct faculty, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon State University
Home address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd., Sweet Home, OR 97386 (bjc3 at cornell_edu)


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