RE: bent spines/was Winter 1967

[Barry Cooper <bjc3 at cornell_edu>]

Bill,

The Sterilite containers I use are the nearly clear one, as you describe, 
although I use th shoebox size for fry. Like you I buy them at Walmart.

Regarding breeding of the affected fish. If you can raise them and get 
eggs, they most likely will develop normally, assuming no exposure to what 
ever was toxic. It is possible, if this was a toxin, that reproduction 
could be affected, but that most likely would cause decreased fertility (if 
anything). I would try it and see how the fry turn out.

Barry

At 03:21 AM 8/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> Barry,
> These are the milky-white hard-plastic type of containers? I use something 
> similar in my band instrument
> repair shop for cold degreaser, strips, etc., but don't want to pay 
> Ferree's prices for it. I'll look around in
> the area for such. 300 gallons is a geometric impossibility in the house 
> we're in right now (we're looking
> to buy as my wife loves Alabama.) I've bought several of the 4-gallon 
> Sterilites: roughly 12X12X8" for $3
> each, pretty cheap almost-clear almost-aquariums from Wal-Mart. And have 
> some Ijebu Ode, etc  (from same breeder) growing out robust and strong--so 
> I'm suspecting my 3-year-old rubbermaids to be the culprit. Damn (got to 
> get up in the middle of the night to cull, while my wife is asleep.) My 
> next question is: since they have bent tails, they're not fit for 
> breeding? Even tho it's not due to congenital anomalies? Or are the genes 
> altered? Sorry, that was 2 questions (^_^)
>
> Bill
>
> : Barry Cooper <bjc3 at cornell_edu>
> > Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
> > To: killietalk at aka_org
> > Subject: RE: bent spines/was Winter 1967
> > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:52:53 -0700
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> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > This is an interesting potential explanation for your problem. Exposure 
> > to toxins is certainly a potential cause for malformations and could 
> > cause same in a large number of fry. So it needs to be added to my 
> > nutritional hypothesis.
> >
> > I would be pretty confident that the Sterilie containers, if they are the 
> > translucent ones that I use, would not be the culprit. I use them 
> > extensively for hatching fry and for the first couple of weeks grow out. 
> > I have never seen such a problem. The Rubbermaid container might be a 
> > different story.
> >
> > To store water I use food grade containers. You can buy these in small 
> > sizes. For water storage you can get empty 55 gal food grade containers 
> > at many recyclers of by hunting around in places that make packaged food 
> > products. For example, I got a bunch of them at a place near Eugene that 
> > makes organic salsa, bean dips, and so on. I have a 300 gal container 
> > that I bought at a storage tank place near here. It is also rated for 
> > potable water (i.e. suitable for human consumption), so should not leach 
> > plasticizers.
> >
> > Barry
> > At 01:25 AM 8/5/2003 +0000, you wrote:
> > > Brian, I think we may have a bulls-eye here. I'm humbled and grateful. 
> > > I've used aged water in rubber
> > > maid containers and have been lacing the hatching tray with greenwater 
> > > from a 4 gallon Sterilite container in a south window. One or both may 
> > > be the culprit. The eggs I got from an Oregon breeder
> > > that is first rate, never had problems till now (except for Fp gardneri 
> > > Mamfense Ossing due to my own
> > > ineptitude.) Which of course brings me round to what containers are safe 
> > > for this kind of thing? Or is it
> > > the heat and intense sunlight that is accelerating the condition of 
> > > phenols? Thank you and to all for your
> > > insights and experience.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > ps as a sidebar, I've never mastered the art of greenwater like Scott 
> > > Davis: the first shipment of killies in
> > > the hobby included this bag of vibrant green-yellow water teeming with 
> > > life when the sun hit it.
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: "Brian R. Watters" <bwatters at sk_sympatico.ca>
> > > > Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
> > > > To: killietalk at aka_org
> > > > Subject: RE: bent spines/was Winter 1967
> > > > Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:44:44 -0600
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> > > >
> > > > David Lains wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We have problems with zebrafish and bent or missing tails.  The
> > > > > culprit has
> > > > > been soft plastics with rubberizers.  The gaskets on bulkheads are 
> > > > really
> > > > > bad.  If you raise fish in a static tank with a bunch of these rubber
> > > > > washers in the bottom the fish end up missing everything beyond the 
> > > > caudle
> > > > > peduncle (no tailfin).  If you raise them with less exposure they end up
> > > > > with bent tails.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting. Someone I know in Europe was at one time having trouble with
> > > > bent spines in almost all of his fish. It turned out that the culprit was a
> > > > plastic tub used for maturing water (for water changing purposes). If I
> > > > remember correctly, the problem was put down to phenols leaching from the
> > > > plastic into the water.
> > > > ___________________________________________
> > > > Brian R. Watters
> > > > University of Regina
> > > > Regina, Sask. S4S 0A2, Canada
> > > > Ph: (306) 584-9161 (home); (306) 585-4663 (work)
> > > > Fax: (306) 585-5433
> > > > E-mail: bwatters at sk_sympatico.ca
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> > Barry J. Cooper, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Biomedical Sciences, Cornell 
> > University
> > Adjunct faculty, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon State University
> > Home address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd., Sweet Home, OR 97386 (bjc3 at cornell_edu)
> >
> >
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Barry J. Cooper, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. Biomedical Sciences, Cornell University
Adjunct faculty, College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon State University
Home address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd., Sweet Home, OR 97386 (bjc3 at cornell_edu)


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