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RE: Beginners luck
Holy cow, Bill, not enough time in a day. Add to that the stupid things I
did with other types of fish before that, and it is a wonder I'm still in
the hobby. It just has to be in your blood, I suppose.
Boat
"Anybody else do anything stupid as a beginner.
Bill Martin"
Allen "Boat" Boatman
Lutz, FL
TBAS, SKS, AKA 08298, SAA 96, CRLCA, NANFA
It doesn't matter how many say it cannot be done or how many people have
tried it before; it's important to realize that whatever you're doing, it's
your first attempt at it.
~ Wally Amos ~
-----Original Message-----
From: Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org [mailto:Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 8:02 PM
To: Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org
Subject: KillieTalk Digest V4 #314
KillieTalk Digest Tuesday, August 6 2002 Volume 04 : Number 314
In this issue:
Re: Sean Monson
Re: Sean Monson
Killie fish need help! (was Re: I needed help)
Re: I needed help
Cryogenic freezing of Killie eggs for species preservation
Beginners Luck
fry survive 1 month without being fed
Re: KillieTalk Digest V4 #313
Re: TDS meters/pH meters
Re: West Nile Virus
Re: West Nile Virus
RE: Patrick is leaving?
See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
KillieTalk mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 03:39:55 +0800
From: "Shane Essary" <sessary at mail_com>
Subject: Re: Sean Monson
Hey Al,
>From what I remember, he never sent me a phone number, and his address was
a PO Box. Heck, I jumped on this thread late, when the Subject was listed
as Sean Monson. Indeed, a couple years ago I went in with some others and
sent him $100+ (back when I had money. :) ) for some JOE he was supposed to
get in, got a huge sob letter regarding how his wife was an alcoholic, he
just got custody of his kids, blah blah. Heck, I may have those emails
somewhere, still, but I genuinely felt pity for the man. Anyway, I just
remembered that he promised to refund my money when the shipment fell
through. Hrm, gonna have to shoot him an email about that. He "runs" the
joergenscheeli group on Yahoo, too.
Honestly, I don't expect to see the fish or the money. For all practical
purposes, it's been written off. If a man has to depend on the naivity of
total strangers who are used to helping one another for his "schemes," well,
that's just sad. Burn me once, shame on you, ....
- -Shane
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Anderson" <killiman at iquest_net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:46:55 -0400
To: <killietalk at aka_org>
Subject: Re: Sean Monson
> There are TWO sides to every story perhaps Mr. Monson has a story to tell
> and should be allowed to do so. Does he have a phone number? If one of you
> on the list has a Phone number that is current for him please send it to
me
> off list.
>
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 03:40:48 +0800
From: "Shane Essary" <sessary at mail_com>
Subject: Re: Sean Monson
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I hate posting when I just wake up. That was supposed to
be OFF-LIST, sorry folks.
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:55:47 -0500
From: "Michael Schelp" <MikeTeach at msn_com>
Subject: Killie fish need help! (was Re: I needed help)
Thank you for your comments. As to Chris being rude towards the end, it is
my belief that it isn't rude to tell someone they are being rude. His
original comments were quite polite, actually.
My comments about the hobby becoming a bunch of "80 year old, bald, fat men"
isn't far off if we don't bring new members into the hobby. If we love
these fish as much as some claim, then we need to insure there existence not
only now, but in the future. I personally gave about 8 pairs of killies
away last May at the end of school to my students. Are they all going to
become Killie nuts? Nope. Will some of them at least KNOW about them. You
bet! If even one gets hooked, that is another YOUNG person not doing
something harmful, but doing something good. Now, I only had 9 students at
the end of the year, and these kids ASKED for the fish. That is mentoring,
or at least the start of it. Steve has done the same with Chris.
Instead of seeing how expert WE are (yeah, right!), lets see if we can
actually SPREAD the hobby. I was at the 2002 AKA convention in St. Louis.
Let's be real, it wasn't the youngest bunch of people I've seen. (no offense
to my older colleagues). So, let us truly help the fish by increasing the
number of people who keep them. Any ideas?
Mike Schelp
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sump
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:22 PM
To: KillieTalk at AKA_Org
Subject: Re: I needed help
I could not have agreed more with Mike and Robert! We, as a responsible
group, had the ability to bring two new members into the hobby and we pretty
much blew it. I have contacted Chris, the "kid" offlist, and he is very
serious about trying to collect and breed killies. After talking to him I
realized that, it was most probably his father coming through with regards
to the mixing of populations. If you recall, his father was a cichlid
breeder, and their group has a different take on breeding than we do. Chris
is also very upset over, and rightfully so, that a group of grown men and
women could not find it within themselves to show a little patience and
restraint with him and his questions. I know his queries were repetitive.
I know he overstepped the bounds of courtesy at the end. All because we
could not find the ability to explain some very simple tenets of the AKA to
an individual who was having a hard time understanding what it was that we
were trying to say to him.
Mike brought up the idea that we should mentor people. I agree with him
100%. Wouldn't it be nice, that if along with your new membership to the
AKA, you received the name of someone who would be willing to personally
take you under their wing and show you the answers to your questions? I'm
sure there are a lot of people willing to open their homes and fish rooms to
new members to help them along. I have done it and I'm sure most of you
have too. I think that the AKA would be very well served by a mentoring
program that would work hand in hand with the Beginner's Committee.
Do any of you remember the first time you went to a club meeting or an AKA
sanctioned show? I do. It was one of the most socially uncomfortable
things I have ever done. I really felt like an outsider. One of the things
that helped greatly was that I knew someone that was a club member, and he
started introducing me to people. Can you imagine how Chris or Patrick felt
coming to a group of knowledgeable hobbyists, not knowing anyone, and
getting lambasted the way they did? I'm surprised they were as polite as
they were. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, for not getting involved in
the thread earlier, but I think I have been able to salvage something with
Chris. I hope he will stick with it and become a member of the AKA. I hope
someone out there has the same ability to help Patrick.
I'm sorry I stayed so long on my soapbox, and I appreciate all of you taking
the time to read this. I am not trying to chastise anyone, I'm just sharing
my observations and thoughts on what I've seen over the past few weeks. If
anyone would like to discuss any of what I have written further, pleas feel
free to contact me off-list and I will be happy to oblige.
Regards,
Steve Sump AKA # 5406
" If one strives to treat others as he would be treated by them, he will
come near the perfect life." - Ming Tzu -
> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:45:17 -0500
> From: "Michael Schelp" <MikeTeach at msn_com>
> Subject: Re: I needed help
>
> Robert, I agree with you. The "kid" could have been pointed in the right
direction with a slight nudge and good information, not the intense
criticism that he got. Also, the pond COULD have been stocked with LOCAL
natives to the benefit of all involved. Instead, we have sent more then
just these two guys packing because of some over zealous people who, instead
of SOLVING the problem, ostracized newcomers and outsiders. Remember, for
every person who posted, there are several who just read the posts. Keep
this up people and the hobby will be practiced by a bunch of 80 year old,
bald, fat men. We were all ignorant once. We are still all ignorant (check
the definition if you don't like it). No one of us is an expert in
everything. There are also many opinions that are held. Not all opinions
are equal, I agree, but we must be careful of making blanket statements of
right and wrong. We should learn to MENTOR people, and that implies more
then just saying they are wron!
> g.
>
> Mike
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: RuevenM at aol_com
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 9:03 AM
> To: killietalk at aka_org
> Subject: I needed help
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ok, so this week we have driven away a kid -- assuming he was on
the
> level -- because we lectured him on even thinking about keeping two widely
> spred populations of gardneri together and, now, Patrick has pulled out of
a
> student project on pond stocking because it might at some point be a
> questionable act. Are we sure our correct philosophy isn't driving people
> away? If I was a newbie on here this week, I might have said, "Geez these
> people are kind of fanatics, maybe I'll just keep cichlids."
>
> Robert Ellermann
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:57:11 -0500
From: "Michael Schelp" <MikeTeach at msn_com>
Subject: Re: I needed help
I'm a fairly new member to the AKA and didn't know about it.
Mike Schelp
AKA 08440
- ----- Original Message -----
From: LeeH920226 at aol_com
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:34 PM
To: KillieTalk at aka_org
Subject: Re: I needed help
In a message dated 8/6/02 2:20:39 PM, spoggy at attbi_com writes:
<< I think that the AKA would be very well served by a mentoring
program that would work hand in hand with the Beginner's Committee.
>>
We started one over a year ago and it is in full operation. It was, and has
been continually publicized, so it is no secret. Catherine Carney and Greg
Simpson, who are the Beginners Committee Cochairpersons will also probably
respond.
Lee Harper (AKA Chairman, 2000, 2001)
Media, PA
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 16:07:59 -0400
From: "Bill Wallace" <bwallace at mitra_com>
Subject: Cryogenic freezing of Killie eggs for species preservation
Has anyone tried cryogenic freezing of killie eggs? Is there any data on
hatch rates after freezing, and/or methodology? It seems like it would be a
good way to preserve the purity and availability of certain species. If we
could get a biology student willing to do a Masters or PhD on it, and
perhaps get longer term government funding to run a program, then we would
be able to preserve a great many more species (including non-killi fish).
After the initial research was done, it would likely be possible to have
continuous work done both by volunteers using established guidelines, as
well as in a University setting as part of an icthyology course or as part
of a Master's work in biology to add new species and confirm hatch rates etc
for them. I'm guessing that it would have to be phrased somewhat
differently to get funding, but I'm fairly certain it would be possible to
get reasonable amounts of money for this.
It might also be possible to flash freeze fry and have them live when they
are thawed as long as the fry are sufficiently small. I know that insects
can often be frozen and still live, but I don't know what the issues would
be with fry. Some fishes naturally contain various types of anti-freeze,
which might be a way to help the process.
Bill
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:15:09 -0500
From: Bill Martin <bmartin at gfhnrc_ars.usda.gov>
Subject: Beginners Luck
Some times it helps to recall what we were like when we first started
keeping killifish.
My first year in the AKA I bought all kinds of killies, some of them
reasonably rare, before assessing whether I could care for them
properly. I killed a lot of fish in my enthusiasm and since then have
learned to exercise more self control (sort of).
When I lost my female gardneri and male cinnamoneum, I put the
survivors together and bred them. My biggest early success was with A.
mirabile traudea (sp?) that I got from Holland. I raised over 50 of the
fry in the basement with out an aquarium heater. They were all males.
Anybody else do anything stupid as a beginner.
Bill Martin
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 16:58:24 -0400
From: "Tarmack" <tarmack at clarityconnect_com>
Subject: fry survive 1 month without being fed
About one month ago I put some plants (annubius nanna leaves and hornwart)
and 1 pond snail in a 1 gallon jar in a window. I did not realize that a
few Ep. annulatus eggs were in the plants. I looked at the plants today and
I noticed 1 annulatus about 1/8 inch long swimming in the jar.
Richard Brice
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 17:30:54 -0400
From: "Steve Sump" <spoggy at attbi_com>
Subject: Re: KillieTalk Digest V4 #313
Sorry I missed that, my wife and I had our first child recently, and if it
isn't covered in baby slop, I have a tendency to miss it.
Sorry for my faux pas!
Steve Sump
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:32:17 EDT
> From: LeeH920226 at aol_com
> Subject: Re: I needed help
>
> In a message dated 8/6/02 2:20:39 PM, spoggy at attbi_com writes:
>
> << I think that the AKA would be very well served by a mentoring
>
> program that would work hand in hand with the Beginner's Committee.
>
> >>
>
> We started one over a year ago and it is in full operation. It was, and
has
> been continually publicized, so it is no secret. Catherine Carney and Greg
> Simpson, who are the Beginners Committee Cochairpersons will also probably
> respond.
>
> Lee Harper (AKA Chairman, 2000, 2001)
> Media, PA
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:12:57 -0500
From: "Scott Davis" <unclescott at prodigy_net>
Subject: Re: TDS meters/pH meters
Hello Dr. Brown,
Thanks very much! I will certainly check. That salinity term is intriguing.
All the best!
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Brown_D at pcfnotes1_wustl.edu>
To: <KillieTalk at AKA_Org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: TDS meters/pH meters
>
> I saw some pH and "salinity" meters for sale at goldfishconnection.com.
> I'm not sure exactly what the "salinity" meter measures, but it might be
> what you're looking for. They were both 60-70$ or so.
>
>
> Diane Brown___
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 18:11:40 -0700
From: gary l meyers <garymeyers at juno_com>
Subject: Re: West Nile Virus
exactly
On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 07:24:27 -0400 "Tom ROCHE" <TROCHE at georgia_org>
writes:
> I think we all need to get vaccinated with horse vaccine.
> That should do it. I really would like to work outside
> without getting bites. I just don't want to be an old geezer with
> Mr. Ed's voice.
>
> Tom Roche
>
> >>> LadysSolo at aol_com 08/05/02 07:58PM >>>
> Actually, as I have 2 creeks and a swamp on my property, I think I
> am
> REDUCING the mosquito population by sieving my horses' water trough
> for
>
> mosquito larvae. My thinking is that the mosquitos that lay eggs in
> my
> trough
> would otherwise be laying in the swamp or creeks, so I am reducing
> their
> population. Also, I get far fewer bites out here in the country than
> I
> did
> living in the city. Go figure. They NEVER spray out here, but there
> are
> bats
> and barn swallows (natural bug control.) And the horse vaccine for
> West
> Nile
> Virus is very safe. All my horses are vaccinated - they never even
> got
> a bump
> at the vaccination site. Carolyn
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 18:13:51 -0700
From: gary l meyers <garymeyers at juno_com>
Subject: Re: West Nile Virus
there wouldn't be more mosquitos there would be fewer -- think about it
On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 07:35:38 -0400 "Tom ROCHE" <TROCHE at georgia_org>
writes:
> I have a problem with spraying too. It can't help people like
> me with a little asthma, and I don't like the killing of beneficial
> insects with the sprays.
> I will mention one other thing. Years ago, a friend of mine who
> worked
> at CDC and was new to killies was appalled to know that some of
> us cultivated mosquito larvae. Since then, I've always felt guilty
> about raising them, and I would never raise them under these
> circumstances.
> It just doesn't make sense to put more mosquitos out there under
> the current circumstances. We all know that we have food
> alternatives.
> Of course, they are not carriers when they first hatch, but do you
> really think that more mosquitos are a good thing?
>
> Tom Roche
>
> >>> garymeyers at juno_com 08/05/02 08:51PM >>>
> I think mosquito larva can be raised safely without adding to the
> west
> nile virus problem.
> The problem is the spraying can kill even the larva in
> barrels/ponds
> etc.
>
> I really wish they would not spray - find another solution -- the
> indescrimanant spraying they do in my community kills honey-bees
> and
> other polinating insects as well as the mosquitos.
>
> On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:59:52 -0500 Bill Martin
> <bmartin at gfhnrc_ars.usda.gov> writes:
> > At 03:28 PM 8/5/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > >The first thing we can all do is to forget about using mosquitos
> > >to feed our fish. In view of this disease, it is highly
> > irresponsible
> > >to
> > >deliberately breed carriers. We all know that some, if not
> many,
> > >escape despite our best efforts.
> >
> > The best defense against West Nile virus is to spray and
> kill
> > all the
> > mosquitos. Watch the insecticide levels increase further up the
> > food
> > chain. See fish populations destroyed, bald eagles become extinct
>
> > and
> > spend billions of dollars. I'm sure if we just let the
> politicians
>
> > handle
> > it everything will come out okay and taxes won't increase too
> much.
> > I hope you all realize I being sarcastic. So far the town I
>
> > live in
> > has spent $1.50 per person on mosquito spraying. If the U.S.
> were
>
> > to
> > develop an inoculation program against West Nile virus, more
> people
> > would
> > die from the vaccine than from the virus. Actually if you just
> > inject them
> > with saline you'd get more deaths than West Nile causes. through
> > with our
> > emotions on these kind of issues. Over one million turkeys and
> > chickens
> > were destroyed in Virginia last because a few birds were found
> with
> > Avian
> > Flu. Billions has been spent to kill cattle that may have been
> > exposed to
> > Mad Cow Disease which just might be responsible for a disease that
>
> > has
> > killed less than thirty humans in the last twenty years. ( I
> wander
> > how
> > many geezers have died while having sex in the last twenty years,
>
> > being a
> > geezer myself, they'd better not determine that it would be in my
>
> > best
> > interest to ban all such activity after someone reaches 55.)
> > I'll get of the soap box and quit taking up bandwidth and
> > start
> > talking killifish.
> > The mosquitos may escape will not be carrying West Nile
> virus
> > until
> > they become infected by biting an organism with the virus. That
> > mosquito
> > will then be a carrier, but when it lays its eggs and the eggs
> hatch
>
> > they
> > will not hatch into carriers of West Nile virus, they have to
> become
>
> >
> > infected all over again. Any mosquitos that we may release into
> the
>
> >
> > environment are just increasing the number of possible carriers.
>
> > Since
> > mosquitos generally don't travel large distances from where they
> > hatch,
> > about the only chance they have of becoming infected is if we live
>
> > near an
> > infected animal. The combined affect of all killifish enthusiasts
>
> > raising
> > mosquitos on the incidence of West Nile virus is probably
> > statistically
> > nonexistent.
> >
> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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> > text/html
> > ---
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> >
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 19:58:27 -0400
From: "Allen and Sandra" <allensandra at boatmans_com>
Subject: RE: Patrick is leaving?
How long have you been on the list, Steve Sump? Patrick has been here for a
while now, knows everyone, and is not going anywhere. Sheesh people reed
the list for crying out loud.
Boat
"Patrick felt
coming to a group of knowledgeable hobbyists, not knowing anyone, and"
Allen "Boat" Boatman
Lutz, FL
TBAS, SKS, AKA 08298, SAA 96, CRLCA, NANFA
It doesn't matter how many say it cannot be done or how many people have
tried it before; it's important to realize that whatever you're doing, it's
your first attempt at it.
~ Wally Amos ~
- -----Original Message-----
From: Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org [mailto:Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 3:28 PM
To: Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org
Subject: KillieTalk Digest V4 #313
KillieTalk Digest Tuesday, August 6 2002 Volume 04 : Number 313
In this issue:
Re: KillieTalk Digest V4 #312
Re: I needed help
Re: I needed help
Re: TDS meters/pH meters
See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
KillieTalk mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:12:29 -0400
From: Susan Aufieri <susanaufieri at mac_com>
Subject: Re: KillieTalk Digest V4 #312
on 8/6/02 1:48 PM, KillieTalk Digest at Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org wrote:
>
> Our website is http://www.bostonaquariumsociety.org/ (and yes, it is very
> much out of date, sorry)
Life has a way of getting in the way of fun things from time to time, and
this year more so than normal. This webbie is in the process of updating it
today, should be finished by tonite or tommorrow morning.
FWIW, it is NOT a new site, it's been around for roughly 3 years!
Susan
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:25:05 -0400
From: "Steve Sump" <spoggy at attbi_com>
Subject: Re: I needed help
I could not have agreed more with Mike and Robert! We, as a responsible
group, had the ability to bring two new members into the hobby and we pretty
much blew it. I have contacted Chris, the "kid" offlist, and he is very
serious about trying to collect and breed killies. After talking to him I
realized that, it was most probably his father coming through with regards
to the mixing of populations. If you recall, his father was a cichlid
breeder, and their group has a different take on breeding than we do. Chris
is also very upset over, and rightfully so, that a group of grown men and
women could not find it within themselves to show a little patience and
restraint with him and his questions. I know his queries were repetitive.
I know he overstepped the bounds of courtesy at the end. All because we
could not find the ability to explain some very simple tenets of the AKA to
an individual who was having a hard time understanding what it was that we
were trying to say to him.
Mike brought up the idea that we should mentor people. I agree with him
100%. Wouldn't it be nice, that if along with your new membership to the
AKA, you received the name of someone who would be willing to personally
take you under their wing and show you the answers to your questions? I'm
sure there are a lot of people willing to open their homes and fish rooms to
new members to help them along. I have done it and I'm sure most of you
have too. I think that the AKA would be very well served by a mentoring
program that would work hand in hand with the Beginner's Committee.
Do any of you remember the first time you went to a club meeting or an AKA
sanctioned show? I do. It was one of the most socially uncomfortable
things I have ever done. I really felt like an outsider. One of the things
that helped greatly was that I knew someone that was a club member, and he
started introducing me to people. Can you imagine how Chris or Patrick felt
coming to a group of knowledgeable hobbyists, not knowing anyone, and
getting lambasted the way they did? I'm surprised they were as polite as
they were. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, for not getting involved in
the thread earlier, but I think I have been able to salvage something with
Chris. I hope he will stick with it and become a member of the AKA. I hope
someone out there has the same ability to help Patrick.
I'm sorry I stayed so long on my soapbox, and I appreciate all of you taking
the time to read this. I am not trying to chastise anyone, I'm just sharing
my observations and thoughts on what I've seen over the past few weeks. If
anyone would like to discuss any of what I have written further, pleas feel
free to contact me off-list and I will be happy to oblige.
Regards,
Steve Sump AKA # 5406
" If one strives to treat others as he would be treated by them, he will
come near the perfect life." - Ming Tzu -
> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:45:17 -0500
> From: "Michael Schelp" <MikeTeach at msn_com>
> Subject: Re: I needed help
>
> Robert, I agree with you. The "kid" could have been pointed in the right
direction with a slight nudge and good information, not the intense
criticism that he got. Also, the pond COULD have been stocked with LOCAL
natives to the benefit of all involved. Instead, we have sent more then
just these two guys packing because of some over zealous people who, instead
of SOLVING the problem, ostracized newcomers and outsiders. Remember, for
every person who posted, there are several who just read the posts. Keep
this up people and the hobby will be practiced by a bunch of 80 year old,
bald, fat men. We were all ignorant once. We are still all ignorant (check
the definition if you don't like it). No one of us is an expert in
everything. There are also many opinions that are held. Not all opinions
are equal, I agree, but we must be careful of making blanket statements of
right and wrong. We should learn to MENTOR people, and that implies more
then just saying they are wron!
> g.
>
> Mike
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: RuevenM at aol_com
> Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 9:03 AM
> To: killietalk at aka_org
> Subject: I needed help
>
> Hi All,
>
> Ok, so this week we have driven away a kid -- assuming he was on
the
> level -- because we lectured him on even thinking about keeping two widely
> spred populations of gardneri together and, now, Patrick has pulled out of
a
> student project on pond stocking because it might at some point be a
> questionable act. Are we sure our correct philosophy isn't driving people
> away? If I was a newbie on here this week, I might have said, "Geez these
> people are kind of fanatics, maybe I'll just keep cichlids."
>
> Robert Ellermann
> - ---------------
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:32:17 EDT
From: LeeH920226 at aol_com
Subject: Re: I needed help
In a message dated 8/6/02 2:20:39 PM, spoggy at attbi_com writes:
<< I think that the AKA would be very well served by a mentoring
program that would work hand in hand with the Beginner's Committee.
>>
We started one over a year ago and it is in full operation. It was, and has
been continually publicized, so it is no secret. Catherine Carney and Greg
Simpson, who are the Beginners Committee Cochairpersons will also probably
respond.
Lee Harper (AKA Chairman, 2000, 2001)
Media, PA
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 13:51:32 -0500
From: Brown_D at pcfnotes1_wustl.edu
Subject: Re: TDS meters/pH meters
I saw some pH and "salinity" meters for sale at goldfishconnection.com.
I'm not sure exactly what the "salinity" meter measures, but it might be
what you're looking for. They were both 60-70$ or so.
Diane Brown___
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