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Re: AW: Mixing Fry(babies)



On 7/31/02 2:52 AM, "Chris Browning" <fisher25000 at yahoo_com> wrote:

> 
> Yes, you should have low expectations from me because I have not had decades
> to learn everything that you people know.

The lower the expectations, the less people arise to a challenge.
Expectations should be high. At the same time, you will have lots of
understanding from people on this list, because we all were beginners at
some point. My first fish was F. gardneri. I had no idea that there was even
more then one collection code. I figured a gardneri was a gardneri. I would
have mixed anything that was given to me. Your one up on my humble
beginnings (you know about the whole collection code thing).
>But, I'll wager that so far, I have
> learned more about killifish in the last month than 99% of the population of
> the entire world will learn in it's entire lifetime thanks to the internet and
> the people on this list. Most everything I get in replies now is stuff I
> already know, thankfully.

Thatıs great. I figure I know more then 99% of the general public also.
Unfortunately, that is probably about 5% of the knowledge base of this list.
I am always learning something new. And I still make lots of mistakes.

>O, and, I haven't talked to my mother in years, not
> that it matters, I just don't like her being brought up, I'm not blaming you
> though. I wasn't using my age as a crutch, I was explaining that I do not know
> everything you people know because I only learned Killies even existed about a
> month ago, and that I'm not 40+ years old and have not owned Kilies for 20
> some odd years. 

Lots of people get their first killie at 40. The trick is, none of them are
saying "give me a break, I am only 40". And the 40 year olds are making the
same mistakes as you and learning at the same rate.

>I should not be criticised because I do not already know
> everything about these fish. I only know what you people tell me, so I should
> not be repremanded for asking a question that I do not know the a!
> nswer to, even if some of you view it as an obvious answer. If I knew the
> answer, I would not ask it.

I don't think anyone is trying to reprimand you, just enlighten you. The
problem that I had with your original post is that you were stating your age
(and lack of resources) as a reason for mixing locations of killies, even in
the midst of everyone saying it's a bad idea. Asking questions is good, just
do not try to interpret the emotions involved in the replies. Take out the
useful information and throw the perceived emotions away.

>I can reasonably take care of them, I can take
> care of them better than anyone I know, but I want to go BEYOND reasonable.
> Reasonable is providing them with plants, hiding places and such, correct
> water conditions, correct food, regular water changes and feeding, and such. I
> want to go beyond that by breeding them and getting others into the hobby, so
> I can have some fish friends to talk to, instead of just talking to my fish. I
> have owned fish my whole life, just never Killies, so I knew nothing about
> them. I have kept all others, livebearers, all types, cyprinids such as Danios
> and Balas, lots of different tetras, catfishes, loaches, all of them, even
> cichlids, but never a killie until now.

I think it is great that you have the experience that you do and the
enthusiasm. I want you to succeed and share your fish with everyone. I want
you to be a successful breeder and be able to trade in your killies for more
tanks, food, or supplies at the local pet store. Hopefully you will be able
to trade with others in the group. Maybe we can trade someday. This is the
point though that I want to be able to tell myself "self, that Chris guy is
a top notch breeder and I would love to get some gardneri from him because I
know he keeps his strains separate and true"

>The purpose may be to enjoy the fish,
> but to enjoy the fish, you have to know how to provide for them and keep them
> alive, and to get more fish, seeing as most Killies are short-lived. !
> I can not keep ordering them through the mail, it costs WAY t!
> oo much considering some produce 100s of eggs a month. I don't see how some
> peoplecan charge ten dollars for 12 eggs, and then 10 dollars shipping, when
> their fishes provide the eggs FOR FREE! I am going to give away most of my
> eggs and fry to my friend's mother for her pond,a nd I am not concerned about
> making a profit, I am just concerned with my fish leaving their mark.

I think this topic was covered well already. Just wanted to say that I would
like to meet a killie keeper who actually made a profit. Most of do give a
way lots of free stuff, but we do have expenses.

>And, I 
> would let something someone wrote discourage me because I am scared to death
> of doing the wrong thing for my fish, and if someone tells me that basically,
> I am stupid, I am going to believe them, and be afraid that I might kill my
> fish and I will then sell them and give up. Does this all make sense? It does
> to me.

Sure it makes sense. But I still think it is the wrong approach. You know
that old saying "Question Authority". I would live by that rule. It is also
known as thinking critically. That doesn't mean that you never listen to
anyone, just that you question their motives, experiences, background,
biases, and every other detail that brought them to their opinion. Think
about an old growth forest that is about to be logged. Now think about the
opinion and scientific support you would get from a logger VS an
environmentalist. They would probably both be very right in their own way
yet would have very conflicting ideas. The key is filtering information and
making your own ideas.

One other thing on killing fish. I kill lots. I don't like to or always mean
to, but I do. I stopped beating myself up over it. This is how I look at it:
Think of a particular species of killies as a civilization. That
civilization will grow and shrink, have good days and bad. The important
part is that the civilization lives. Introducing a similar population may
work just fine, they may breed and live happily. But the flip side is like
this, I wonder if the Native Americans/ Aborigines/ Aztecs are/were happy
with the introduction of the European collection of Homosapian. Are things
still the same? Was the introduction better?

Good luck with the killies,
Jeremy

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