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pH-hardness



Folks.........I agree with Allen.  There have been people trying to get rid
of the "old pH" myth for years and we aren't listening.  It took Wright a
hammer and a baseball bat and a lot of personal e-mail and a phone
conversation or two to get through to me but he never got mad at me and it
all finally paid off, I went to the Chemistry books, and the Chemistry
teacher at the high school I teach at, and did a little studying and he
(Wright) is absolutely right (Wright...?????...;-) ).

I have also seen the demonstration Allen spoke of but it was totally at a
different time and with a different person.  I was having a pH discussion
with a friend of mine so to prove the point he took a tank of baby discus
the size of about a silver dollar (from one of his 20 pair of breeder
discus)........maybe 25-30 of the baby discus and lowered the pH from about
7 to about 4 in maybe 15 seconds (liquid pH down)...........the pH bounced
around a bit but eventually was stabilized pretty well about 4.5
..............they never stopped eating their BBrine
shrimp.................after about 20-25 minutes in that water he dipped
them out and put them into a tank where the water was like the original
water..........back up to pH of about 7 as I recall, instantly.........we
put in some more brine shrimp and they resumed eating as though nothing had
ever happened............................the only thing that remained
constant was the hardness of the water as read by a TDS meter.  I was
instantly converted........................I then really began listening
very closely to Wright...............and wasted a great deal of his time
making him tell my why and why and why..............now I think I have
it........................Forget it folks, there is no such thing as pH
shock....................I say that excluding some such drastic change as
something like a pH of 11 to a pH of 2 but within the confines of our
aquariums the critical factor is hardness and it's effect on the body as
related to the osmotic pressure.....particularly on the gills.

Mike

Mike Jacobs
J&M Tropicals
Wild Peruvian Imports...Plus
http://www.southernapistos.com

>
> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:32:34 -0400
> From: "Allen and Sandra" <allensandra at boatmans_com>
> Subject: Re: musings on water changes:  pH change and Osmotic stress
>
> I have witnessed some of what has been discussed here in person.
>
> An acquaintance of mine, Joe Gargas, demonstrated to me a pH change of
> almost 4 POINTS!!  He maintained the conductivity at a constant range but
> took the water down four points, waited a few minutes and brought it back
> up.  The whole time the fish seemed to be unscathed.  HE maintained that
if
> the osmotic pressure stayed constant then the pH change won't stress the
> fish.  However, if there were ammonia in the tank of a large enough
> concentration, and you raised the pH 3 points, you could scald the gills
of
> nearly every fish in the tank.
> While Joe might not be the least abrasive person in explaining these
things
> to the layman, There is no proof like being there to see it.  Mike Jacobs
> might be able to chime in here, and someone else wrote an article on this
in
> a JAKA a year or two ago.  (yes?  No?)   Anyhoo, pretty neat fishy
science.
>
> For what it's worth,
> Allen
>
> Allen "Boat" Boatman
> Lutz, FL
> TBAS, SKS, AKA 08298, SAA 96, CRLCA, NANFA
>




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