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Re: plague

This thread started with a question about several killies being eviscerated after being put in a tank with some plecos and other fish. My personal guess at a diagnosis for that was predation by some of the other fish. The comments below sound to me a lot like Glugea infection. I should make the point that many diseases cause signs that resemble one another and it is risky to make a diagnosis simply on the basis of the appearance of white lumps, as an example.

In Nothos, in particular, if you are seeing unexplained die-offs at a couple of months of age, or white masses developing throughout the body of the fish, particularly showing through the abdominal wall, or protruding from the anus, you should suspect Glugea. Other species, including SA annuals, can also be affected. In my experience rupture of these masses, which are technically called xenomas and which represent greatly enlarged host cells containing the protozoan organisms and their spores, to the outside is rare. It may happen. In the original post on this thread, though, all the fix were eviscerated, which is what suggests predation to me.

If you believe you are having a problem with Glugea, please email me privately. I may be able to help you control the situation. I am currently conducting some trials of a treatment method that shows promise. If the trials are successful we will publish the method in JAKA. I am hoping to have some definitive results by the convention.

The moral of this story, though, is that lesions such as lumps on the fish need to be diagnosed microscopically by a pathologist. The cost of such a procedure is about $25. For an occasional fish with a problem it is probably not worth pursuing it in that way. However, if you are having a problem with multiple fish, or repetitive occurrences, it certainly might be worth that small investment. I can arrange for diagnostic microscopy through Oregon State University if people are interested.

Barry

>Hey Barry,
>
>Does this sound like *Glugea*?
>
>Wright
>
>Tranquility Base wrote:
>>
>> Greetings:
>>
>> There is one disease which causes similar symptoms. I saw it over a year ago
>> now, but do not know the name. The fish develops a small tumor or growth on
>> the abdomen. It continues to eat and behave normally. Then it simply
>> explodes. I mean the stomached pops open while the fish is still alive. The
>> bulging eyes are common with this illness but are not exhibited in all
>> cases. A secondary bacterial or fungal infection may also develop. It came
>> into a brand new tank and setup with a pair of Nothos. After bleaching out
>> the tank, a batch of young killies of a different variety were added. After
>> about 3 to 4 months they exhibited the same symptoms. Mortality was 100%.
>> Common antibiotics were ineffective as was salt and acriflavine. A batch of
>> fry hatched after their parents died. They also perished after about 3
>> weeks. The tank canopy and accouterments have never been reused. That is
>> with the exception of the heater. It was disassembled and soaked overnight
>> in strait bleach then washed with alcohol.  The contagion did not spread
>> with it.  *Extreme* quarantine prevented the disease from spreading any
>> further. I suspect that this disease is making the rounds.  I have cause not
>> to be surprised that it may have made it to That Fish Place. But due to the
>> potential length of the incubation period it is almost impossible to know
>> what fish was infected when you bought it. But as I recall the disease
>> affects male killies first and about 2 to 3 weeks before the onset of the
>> tumor/bulge on the belly the fish have a tendency to swim with clamped fins
>> and shimmy.
>>
>> I hope that I am wrong about your fish! But I would strongly recommend that
>> you institute absolute quarantine until you are certain of the cause.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> ~RJ~
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-killietalk at aka_org [mailto:owner-killietalk at aka_org]On
>> Behalf Of Drummond Howard
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:23 PM
> > To: killietalk at aka_org
>> Subject: RE: plague
>>
>> I don't think there are any snails in the tank, and the pleco is a good 7 to
>> 8 inches long.  It could probably eat them whole.
>>
>> The living fish with a big portion of it's mid-section missing puzzled me
>> the most.  Maybe the neons are getting revenge at night.
>>
>> Drummond
>>
>> >From: "Stoecker,Michael,FRANKLIN PARK,NC&C"
>> ><michael.stoecker at us_nestle.com>
>> >Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
>> >To: "'killietalk at aka_org'" <killietalk at aka_org>
>> >Subject: RE: plague
>> >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:05:35 -0800
>> >
>> >You are implying structural damage to the killies.  That means that
>> >something in that tank is attacking them, maybe at night.  Alternatively,
>> >they are dying from some other cause and being eaten or grazed upon by
>> >pleco's or snails and being discovered later.
>> >mike
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Drummond Howard [mailto:drummondhoward at hotmail_com]
>> >Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:31 AM
>> >To: killietalk at aka_org
>> >Subject: plague
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I have an problem with a large(55 gal) community tank with killies, neons,
>> >zebras,and a pleco.  About three days ago one of the killies died, then the
>> >next morning 6 were dead on the bottom with their stomachs gone.  Last
>> >night
>> >
>> >there was one with it's stomach missing, eyes bulging out but still alive.
>> >I'm sure he is dead now, and maybe more killies as well, but I have no idea
>> >what is doing this.  The tank is my sons at his mothers house, so I
>> >couldn't
>> >
>> >go look at them yet, but neither my son or his mother have seen any
>> >behavior
>> >
>> >changes or signs of anything wrong, other than dead fish.
>> >
>> >I can only think of 2 things.
>> >
>> >1.  I purchased 8 Neons at That Pet Place almost two weeks ago.  If it was
>> >something they had and brought in, I would expect them to be the first ones
>> >to go, but they seem fine.  None have died or seem sick.
>> >
>> >2.  Something is eating them.  I know Plecos can do that, but I haven't
>> >seen
>> >
>> >them kill a lot of fish at once.  The Neons are about half the size of the
>> >killies and get chased around by the killies(Gardneri).
>> >The tail fins on the killies are fine, even the one with no stomach.
>> >Usually if something is trying to eat them, their tail fins are the first
>> >to
>> >
>> >go, unless something is big enough to eat them whole or will just grab them
>> >and start sucking, like a Pleco.
>> >
>> >Any ideas?
>> >
>> >Drummond Howard
>> >Gaithersburg, Md
>> >
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>
>--
>Wright Huntley -- 650 843-1240 -- 866 Clara Dr. Palo Alto CA 94303
>
> Wanted: Fish nuts, interested in killifish, for frolicing by the Bay.
>  Lonely club, way out on the Left Coast, promises fun, companionship
>              and information, as well as a super
>               fish sale and auction. See us at:
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-- 
Barry J. Cooper
Department of Biomedical Sciences		Home address:
College of Veterinary Medicine		27505 Riggs Hill Rd.
Cornell University				Sweet Home, OR 97386
(607)253-4273				(541)367-2568
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