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Re: OT. bettas

Exactly Dave... I can totally understand why some people prefer breeding
fish because of their natural beauty and behaviors and some prefer to be
able to progress towards a goal with their fish.  I personally am a little
bit of both... I keep my cichlids, catfish, and killies because I enjoy
watching them interact and I breed bettas because I love being able to see
the improvements I am making in my stock.  Not to imply that bettas are
merely colorful little robots with no personality or natural behaviors.  At
any rate the spawning pairs are much more romantic than guppies LOL. ;) 
Plus, I love being able to show my fish and bettas really are THE perfect
show fish for so many reasons -- they ship well, they need small containers
at the show,  they deport well and have great attitude, they adapt quickly
to different water conditions, and there is a quick generation turnover so
no one can show the same big gorgeous fish for 5 years like you
theoretically could with cichlids, catfish, or goldfish.  Obviously many of
these advantages also apply to killies.

As a betta person I have to admit that I am very jealous of the level of
membership involvement, etc. that the AKA has achieved.  The IBC is working
hard to improve our organization and at least in my mind one of the groups
we should be seeking to emulate is the AKA.

Denise
Shangri-La Bettas

Denise R. Archambeault
Animal Sciences
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

----------
>From: David Sanchez <barbax2 at yahoo_com>
>To: killietalk at aka_org
>Subject: Re: OT. bettas
>Date: Sat, Feb 2, 2002, 2:04 AM
>

>Well said Denise. I want to add a little myself. I
>think some of us Killie people are looking down on
>Bettas as an "easy" fish and soem may be a bit
>"snooty" too. Killies people are wiser etc.. Hey If
>you think Guppies are easy I will ask you to go too a
>Champion Breeders fishroom. Likewise with Bettas. The
>challenge is in the genetics and in the work to
>produce very high quality fish. This means many many
>water changes much more then most Killie hobbyist do
>much less anyone else. So before getting snooty or
>looking down on Bettas as easy fish keep in mind and
>admire the great work and dedication of all breeders
>of Fancy strains of fish such as Bettas. I think we
>can all respect each otehrs interest here. I may
>prefer certain kinds of fish however I do like to
>apreaciate other groups of fish and the unique
>challeges they present to their breeders.
>
>Dave sanchez
>
>
>--- "Denise R. Archambeault" <archambe at uiuc_edu>
>wrote:
>> Well, as a breeder of show bettas I would hardly say
>> that my bettas "cannot
>> swim" or "cannot reproduce by themselves".  Of
>> course they wouldn't survive
>> in the wild... and neither would your average oranda
>> goldfish or blue Jack
>> Dempsey or probably dozens of other types of
>> selectively bred fish.  I
>> personally got interested in bettas because I love
>> genetics and pretty much
>> the only fish you can selectively breed are bettas
>> and guppies.  I also
>> cannot complain about the prices they fetch since I
>> have a few rather
>> expensive strains going myself LOL.  And anyone who
>> has seen a true halfmoon
>> betta knows that there is QUITE a difference between
>> a $2 pet store fish and
>> a champion show betta!  Whether it is worth several
>> hundred dollars is
>> another matter entirely but obviously if people are
>> willing to pay it then
>> the price must not be completely unreasonable.  Hey,
>> they let this poor
>> college student make the rent and have some fun so
>> who am I to complain!  I
>> love my killies, but they definitely don't pay the
>> rent.  Although I'd let
>> them if they wanted to.
>> 
>> The inbreeding comment seems rather harsh when I
>> would be willing to bet
>> that two killifish of the same species from the same
>> locale are more closely
>> related (i.e. show less genetic diversity) than two
>> show bettas from the
>> same line/strain.  Show bettas probably originated
>> from a few pairs that
>> were initially "domesticated" but saying they are
>> therefore all inbred is
>> like saying all goldfish or Arabian horses are
>> inbred because they
>> originated many hundreds or even thousands of years
>> ago with a few
>> individuals.  Inbreeding is often looked upon as
>> being bad due to the fact
>> is taboo in our species, but the reality is that
>> while inbreeding may
>> produce individuals possessing undesirable traits
>> there will also be
>> individuals that possess more desirable traits than
>> either of their parents.
>>  Through inbreeding a hobbyist can actually produce
>> a fish that is healthier
>> and more gentically sound than a fish that is not
>> inbred.  Anyway, I will
>> get off of my genetics soapbox but I thought I had
>> better defend my bettas
>> LOL. ;)
>> 
>> Denise
>> Shangri-La Bettas
>> 
>> Denise R. Archambeault
>> Animal Sciences
>> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
>> 
>> ----------
>> >From: Frauley Elson <fraulels at videotron_ca>
>> >To: killietalk at aka_org
>> >Subject: Re: OT. bettas
>> >Date: Fri, Feb 1, 2002, 6:24 PM
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> >
>> >John Pendergrass wrote:
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> My first thought was to regard this as fluke or
>> something but then I saw
>> >> another one selling for the same price.  Both had
>> multiple bidders. Both
>> >> were pretty but do not compare to killies.
>> >> 
>> >> Gee if we could sell our fish for half the price
>> we would all be rich.
>> >> 
>> >> So what am I missing are these 'Show bettas' that
>> impressive and if so why?
>> >> 
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> John
>> >
>> >John,
>> >I'm on a soapbox, so everyone, be warned or hit
>> delete...
>> >
>> >I think this is a fundamental question. Personally,
>> I have never seen a
>> >show betta that compared to a wild betta. Show
>> Bettas can't swim, and
>> >wouldn't last a minute in the wild. I even prefer
>> wild guppies to
>> >veiltails. Veiltails ARE pretty, but once they
>> start to "behave" it's
>> >time to go watch killies eat. Wild guppies are
>> different, like short
>> >finned Bettas. Those fish tell you a story, while
>> show fish just offer a
>> >lineage.
>> >
>> >With selected fish, there's none of the wonder of
>> watching a killie that
>> >wears its evolutionary history, its adaptations to
>> its environment and
>> >its history all over its form and behavior. Show
>> bettas wear human
>> >cleverness, hard work and the tastes of their
>> keepers. There are some
>> >fine artists in the field, but. 
>> >
>> >Killies just happen. And as long as we avoid
>> hybridizing and selecting
>> >for our tastes, we'll get to see more of what
>> happened in the forests of
>> >Gabon or Cameroon, and by extension, spend less
>> time admiring what was
>> >produced in John Doe's basement with John Doe's
>> hard work and exquisite
>> >taste. John Doe may be a great guy, but I want to
>> learn about killies,
>> >the places they come from and how they have
>> survived so beautifully.
>> >
>> >Plus I'm too cheap to spend $305 US on an inbred
>> fish... 
>> >-Gary Elson
>> >---------------
>> >See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to
>> unsubscribe
>> >Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
>> >
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>> unsubscribe
>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
>
>
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