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Re: OT. bettas

Well said Denise. I want to add a little myself. I
think some of us Killie people are looking down on
Bettas as an "easy" fish and soem may be a bit
"snooty" too. Killies people are wiser etc.. Hey If
you think Guppies are easy I will ask you to go too a
Champion Breeders fishroom. Likewise with Bettas. The
challenge is in the genetics and in the work to
produce very high quality fish. This means many many
water changes much more then most Killie hobbyist do
much less anyone else. So before getting snooty or
looking down on Bettas as easy fish keep in mind and
admire the great work and dedication of all breeders
of Fancy strains of fish such as Bettas. I think we
can all respect each otehrs interest here. I may
prefer certain kinds of fish however I do like to
apreaciate other groups of fish and the unique
challeges they present to their breeders.

Dave sanchez


--- "Denise R. Archambeault" <archambe at uiuc_edu>
wrote:
> Well, as a breeder of show bettas I would hardly say
> that my bettas "cannot
> swim" or "cannot reproduce by themselves".  Of
> course they wouldn't survive
> in the wild... and neither would your average oranda
> goldfish or blue Jack
> Dempsey or probably dozens of other types of
> selectively bred fish.  I
> personally got interested in bettas because I love
> genetics and pretty much
> the only fish you can selectively breed are bettas
> and guppies.  I also
> cannot complain about the prices they fetch since I
> have a few rather
> expensive strains going myself LOL.  And anyone who
> has seen a true halfmoon
> betta knows that there is QUITE a difference between
> a $2 pet store fish and
> a champion show betta!  Whether it is worth several
> hundred dollars is
> another matter entirely but obviously if people are
> willing to pay it then
> the price must not be completely unreasonable.  Hey,
> they let this poor
> college student make the rent and have some fun so
> who am I to complain!  I
> love my killies, but they definitely don't pay the
> rent.  Although I'd let
> them if they wanted to.
> 
> The inbreeding comment seems rather harsh when I
> would be willing to bet
> that two killifish of the same species from the same
> locale are more closely
> related (i.e. show less genetic diversity) than two
> show bettas from the
> same line/strain.  Show bettas probably originated
> from a few pairs that
> were initially "domesticated" but saying they are
> therefore all inbred is
> like saying all goldfish or Arabian horses are
> inbred because they
> originated many hundreds or even thousands of years
> ago with a few
> individuals.  Inbreeding is often looked upon as
> being bad due to the fact
> is taboo in our species, but the reality is that
> while inbreeding may
> produce individuals possessing undesirable traits
> there will also be
> individuals that possess more desirable traits than
> either of their parents.
>  Through inbreeding a hobbyist can actually produce
> a fish that is healthier
> and more gentically sound than a fish that is not
> inbred.  Anyway, I will
> get off of my genetics soapbox but I thought I had
> better defend my bettas
> LOL. ;)
> 
> Denise
> Shangri-La Bettas
> 
> Denise R. Archambeault
> Animal Sciences
> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
> 
> ----------
> >From: Frauley Elson <fraulels at videotron_ca>
> >To: killietalk at aka_org
> >Subject: Re: OT. bettas
> >Date: Fri, Feb 1, 2002, 6:24 PM
> >
> 
> >
> >
> >John Pendergrass wrote:
> >
> >> 
> >> My first thought was to regard this as fluke or
> something but then I saw
> >> another one selling for the same price.  Both had
> multiple bidders. Both
> >> were pretty but do not compare to killies.
> >> 
> >> Gee if we could sell our fish for half the price
> we would all be rich.
> >> 
> >> So what am I missing are these 'Show bettas' that
> impressive and if so why?
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> John
> >
> >John,
> >I'm on a soapbox, so everyone, be warned or hit
> delete...
> >
> >I think this is a fundamental question. Personally,
> I have never seen a
> >show betta that compared to a wild betta. Show
> Bettas can't swim, and
> >wouldn't last a minute in the wild. I even prefer
> wild guppies to
> >veiltails. Veiltails ARE pretty, but once they
> start to "behave" it's
> >time to go watch killies eat. Wild guppies are
> different, like short
> >finned Bettas. Those fish tell you a story, while
> show fish just offer a
> >lineage.
> >
> >With selected fish, there's none of the wonder of
> watching a killie that
> >wears its evolutionary history, its adaptations to
> its environment and
> >its history all over its form and behavior. Show
> bettas wear human
> >cleverness, hard work and the tastes of their
> keepers. There are some
> >fine artists in the field, but. 
> >
> >Killies just happen. And as long as we avoid
> hybridizing and selecting
> >for our tastes, we'll get to see more of what
> happened in the forests of
> >Gabon or Cameroon, and by extension, spend less
> time admiring what was
> >produced in John Doe's basement with John Doe's
> hard work and exquisite
> >taste. John Doe may be a great guy, but I want to
> learn about killies,
> >the places they come from and how they have
> survived so beautifully.
> >
> >Plus I'm too cheap to spend $305 US on an inbred
> fish... 
> >-Gary Elson
> >---------------
> >See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to
> unsubscribe
> >Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
> >
> ---------------
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> unsubscribe
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