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RE: hydroponics (Warning this post goes off topic - No useful killifish information included)
Hi all:
Please forgive a comment from the peanut gallery. I have read both sides of
this debate. This goes to a recent thought I had about our ability as human
beings to communicate in the twenty first century. When we go back to the
texts of the 1700's and 1800's we find that debates about all kinds of
things took place. American independence, slavery and even women's' voting
rights. People of good conscience debated and sometimes convinced each other
of their positions. Now after another hundred of year of evolution just
about every conversation ends with "don't go there" or profanity.
As a people we seem to have lost the ability to discuss politics, religion,
Money, overpopulation, the environment and now even possibly killifish.
Eastern thinking permits for the possibility that two diametrically opposed
positions may both be right or both be wrong. If we consider the possibility
that someone who disagrees with us may also be right (or possibly not in
possession of some relevant facts) or worse yet that we may be as equally
wrong (or also not in possession of some relevant facts) this moment of
consideration might give us all sufficient pause for reflection and a little
time to cool off the flames before we set our digits to the digital.
I have been corrected or challenged (to debate) by some pretty bright folks
on this list, and despite my natural tendency to resist change and an
inherent dislike for being proved wrong, I have somehow managed to learn a
few new things. Where I truly believe that I am right, I will defend my
position, when I am proved wrong, I will gracefully concede my point and
when the possibility arises that we are both right or no further point can
be served by the argument I shut up.
If this world is ever going to get any better we will need to discuss the
important topics. We will need to *hear* the opposing positions and, if need
be, speak our mind and be *heard*. Then and only then might we actually
achieve understanding, compromise and progress.
As I take it, Tom went to an advertised web site in hopes of finding killie
photos or killie information. He invested his on line time and was
disappointed. Had he known that there was no killie related information
there he would most likely have not taken the link, deleted the message and
moved on.
Other people on this list might have broader or just different interests and
found this site helpful or worthwhile.
With regard to who was actually wrong or right on the topic of the original
post and subsequent messages, I will not weigh in on this debate as my
opinion on that matter is irrelevant. But going forward, I would recommend
that if someone wants to post something that is only marginally relevant to
killifish they indicate same in the subject line of the message or at least
in the first paragraph of the body of the post. I know that there have been
a few subjects which I have just deleted based on the subject line without
spending time to read them. So no harm was done as far as I was concerned.
If someone would like to disagree with me. I would be happy to listen, no
flames will be required. If you ever want to prove me wrong, please have at
it, but do it with style and tact and if possible wit and charm. If you can
prove me wrong by weight of evidence or clarity of reason, you will have
helped me and anyone else who was listening in to learn something and you
will deserve and receive my gratitude and no doubt the respect of others.
Best regards,
-RJ-
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-killietalk at aka_org [mailto:owner-killietalk at aka_org]On
Behalf Of Tom Grady
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:28 PM
To: killietalk at aka_org
Subject: RE: hydroponics
<flame on>
Okay ... now I am a bit upset ...
I asked someone who was advertising a non-killie-related website and
only advertising a non-killie related website to not post those
advertisements. I have absolutely no problem with 99.9% of the topics
discussed on this list, but why should people advertise a cichlid website
on the Killie List? I think it is unfair to call me names because I asked
someone to reconsider advertising until its about our hobby. I would not
think the Discus group would appreciate any of us going to their list and
advertising Killie Websites for example. Geez I even chatted nicely with
Max off-list about it and while we may disagree - it never became a
name-calling issue. I also did not respond to his most recent post -
because I believe it inappropriate to continue the debate on the list. But
personal insults are unacceptable.
Topics which relate to the Killifish Hobby is what Killie Talk is
supposed to be about. Killies breed in plants - seems we should learn more
about growing them. Killie Keepers take pictures of their fish - seems we
can all learn more about that here. Filtration systems - Convention
Chat (even the Tolkein humor because it was part of people getting
together at the convention for fun) - Discourses on AKA projects (pro or
con) - Culturing different types of food - discussions about
environmental issues affecting killie habitats - even advertising tons of
websites that have something - anything related to killies is appropriate
as far as I am concerned. All those things are educational and help us all
improve our skills at killie-keeping as well as fish keeping in general.
But the advertisement I saw and went to 3 different times - each time
he posted it - showed only dwarf cichlids, discus and long-range pics of
tanks at Baltimore Aquaruim. He has never posted about anything else on
the list - ever. If the link is purely digital photography - then at
least talk about how you do it on the list and use the site for
examples. But he never did that - he purely advertised. Please go back
and look at his posts if you disagree with me. To me - this is SPAM - not
contributory to the list.
Personally, I would love to see him become a killie-keeper - be active
in the organization - he seems like a real nice guy - but his only interest
in killies is as dither fish (private communication). I won't go into the
8 reasons he listed as why he posted here - 7 of the 8 do not fit the
criteria and the eighth says someone may someday post some killie pics and
articles on his site - which I would certainly support.
I really resent the nasty comment listed below.
<flame off - last comment on this issue ever>
> > Sorry to any one if I have gone too off topic.
>
>Don't let a couple of pricks spoil the rose garden.
>
>Gary Harman-Hobbs
>
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