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Elitist

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Karpa-Wilson" <dkarpawi at indiana_edu>

> Doesn't it bother anyone that this "elitist" thing comes up all the time
> with different groups of people each time and the old hands always respond
> with long posts saying how it's not true?  It would make me think why this
> keeps coming up.
_________________________________________________________________
* * *   This is not to pick on Doug at all - simply a reference to the
discussion ... * * *

I am a little bothered by this thread - the segregation of elitist from
beginner and an apparant perception 'old-timers' are discouraging new
killie-keepers.

I think there are a couple of important points to consider.

First - and I think foremost - it seems that many people want the fish they
claim as "Rare" as if the fish is common enough to simply pass around.
Somewhere in all of this we need to understand RARE = PRACTICALLY NO FISH
EXIST  in the hobby.  When I see people seemingly thinking they are being
denied fish, they don't seem to understand there may only be 3-4 pairs in
the hobby.  I think in many cases the word RARE needs to be replaced with
the term CHALLENGING for fish that are more difficult that the traditional
Newbie offerings and maybe some of those fish - while not common, may well
become available.

Second - I feel that the New Killie-keepers misunderstand the points several
Old-Timers are trying to make.  Its not that we are Elitist - its that we
have spent a great deal of time learning the skills we bring to the hobby
and when we have a Challenging species which may be uncommon,  particularly
one which we have only a few pairs available, we are hesitant to just hand
it to someone that has not demonstrated some skill in breeding more
difficult killies.  Our intent is not to deny, but instead to protect the
animals from being lost or killed through inexperience.  It is not a desire
to remain elite - but a caring for what may be perceived as protection of
the species itself - not the concern someone's feelings are hurt.

Maybe if you look at it this way:  When building a house, you don't ask Joe
Cool off the street - a person who has never even held a hammer - to begin
to do intricate design work as an architect.  Although this example is
extreme, it is the same point.  If I have two pairs of a very difficult or
rare killie - do I give it to the brand new hobbyist because he wants it -
or do I give it to someone who has bred other fish of equal difficulty.

I do not believe this to be an Elitist attitude, but one of prudence.  If
you look at it from a Species Maintenance point of view, you realize - the
fish are better off in the hands of an accomplished breeder with a  history
of long-term success.

Now does that mean Old-Timers should deny challenging fish to beginners.
 No - not if the Old-Timer has enough stock to not risk the species.

With all of the species currently in the hobby, it seems to me a little
unreasonable for relatively new killie-keepers to get upset if they cannot
have some of the most difficult and in truth - least common - fish in the
hobby and expect to be successful.  While this may seem a little ELITIST in
a sense, please understand - I too was once a beginner with the same
attitudes - and I remember my early days in Long Island Killifish Assc. and
the tolerance those people had with my aggressive desires.  I have now spent
30 years in the hobby - guess that makes me an Old Timer and I've learned
that breeding killies requires alot more than a tank and water - it requires
a long term dedication.

One of the things I have learned over the years is there are two types of
fish-keepers:  Breeders and Collectors.  Breeders develop a pride in
long-term success in the hobby - Collectors often grab every species they
can find, attempt to breed them with mixed success, then move on to the next
exciting species and care little for what was the past desire.  Both types
of fish keepers are necessary to the hobby, but which would you prefer to
see yourself remembered for?

Hope this was reasonably clear ...

Tom Grady

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