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RE: Species Maintenance List

Barry,
Please make sure you have a date field next to any published information for
this project.  There is nothing worse than thinking that a species is
present in the hobby only to find out that the record in the database for a
particular species is three years old.  The next thing you then ask yourself
is "How current is all this data?"  "What's in the hobby right now that I
might seek to work with?"
This suggests that the natural order of presentation for this database might
be chronological.  Species come and species go.
Thanks,
mike stoecker


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Barry Cooper [SMTP:bjc3 at cornell_edu]
> Sent:	Friday, December 01, 2000 11:16 AM
> To:	killietalk at aka_org
> Subject:	Re: Species Maintenance List
> 
> Tom Grady and I will work on methods to present basic species data on the 
> web site early in the New Year. Scott McLaughlin suggested a database that
> 
> could be edited by the member, but at least initially I think we will stay
> 
> with Tom developing the data. We will likely set up a database that allows
> 
> searching, but we will not disclose individual names. At this point, I 
> think the idea to to show whether a species is in the hobby and how many 
> people have it (i.e. is it endangered in the hobby). It isn't difficult to
> 
> do this and the needed database and CGIs to run it are already in place on
> 
> the server. Several services on the AKA site are managed through a
> database 
> already, by the way, including the online searchable membership roster in 
> the members only area. I expect that the species maintenance data will
> also 
> be in the members only area.
> 
> What the Species Maintenance Committee will present online should not be 
> confused with a computer program to manage a breeding program. That would 
> be far to complex to do online and it is the business of the individual 
> breeders and maintenance groups.
> 
> barry
> 
> At 12:21 AM 12/1/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >While one menber is able to track breeding pairs and fry, based upon the 
> >number of species and locations and taking into account that you could 
> >assign one number to all the fry from one pair of fish, the database wold
> 
> >be very complex.  I work for a company that does this kind of stuff, I
> can 
> >tell you the hardware alone would be very expensive.  Inital setup and 
> >maintance on a database that large with a web interface could easily run 
> >over $100,000 a year.  It's a nice idea, but it has a couple of 
> >problems.  One, the I don't think the AKA can afford it.  They may be
> able 
> >to find some sort of funding as a large scale research project (for all 
> >you university employees out there).  Most importantly, however, is the 
> >additional time involved and the need to have access to the internet to 
> >reduce costs.  Who is will in to spend that much time doing data entry
> for 
> >those who don't have a computer?
> >
> >Having said that, it is very possible.  The American Kennel Association 
> >has been doing it for years.  Although most dog owners don't own 20
> breeds.....
> >
> >Drummond
> >
> >
> >>From: "William Vannerson" <William_Vannerson at ama-assn_org>
> >>Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
> >>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
> >>Subject: Re: Species Maintenance List
> >>Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:33:47 -0600
> >>
> >> >>>however, identification and tracking of individuals and their 
> >> genealogy would probably be quite difficult and unreliable.<<<
> >>
> >>Actually, one member does track specific breeding pairs using a computer
> 
> >>database.  The data tracks when and where the fish came from and how 
> >>they're maintained for breeding.  It also tracks pairs given out so that
> 
> >>anyone tracing back to him can be given specific information on the line
> 
> >>(i.e., how it was bred, where it was sourced form originally, etc.).
> All 
> >>of the fry in spawn are ID'ed by the parents control numbers so crossing
> 
> >>records can be kept.
> >>
> >>This level of detail may sound extreme, but it does allow for very 
> >>accurate tracking of the line, Provided the breeder maintains accurate
> data.
> >>(remember, machines are stupid, especially computers!)  I collected some
> 
> >>of these tidbits a few months ago when I made an open call for what 
> >>people use for record keeping.  My intent, at Lee's urging, is to write
> a 
> >>short article on the subject.  I just haven't had time to even start on 
> >>it, but I did keep copies of all correspondence so I can get to it some
> day.
> >>
> >>It may not be a stud book (I've never actually seen a stud book or even 
> >>know what's recorded and maintained in them), but it would allow folks
> to 
> >>track where their fish came from and if it would make sense to swap.
> >>
> >>So if I have several pairs of fish X from different sources, I can
> easily 
> >>see if I'm mixing the lines enough to be diverse.  If I add a new line 
> >>from a totally new breeder, I can accurately plan a breeding program to 
> >>provide some level of genetic mixing.
> >>
> >>But I'm wondering is how much mixing is good (or bad) to ensure vitality
> 
> >>of the line.  Are there a set of simple rules one can apply to provide a
> 
> >>reasonable degree of diversity.  Or is such scientific approach beyond 
> >>the reach of most hobbyists.  Or is it even worth while and we should
> let 
> >>mother nature take care of such things and the normal randomness of 
> >>genetics will sort things out.
> >>
> >>BTW, Lee is graciously sending me a copy of the JAKA article he cited 
> >>yesterday. Thanks, Lee.
> >>
> >>Bill Vannerson
> >>McHenry, IL
> >>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/william_vannerson
> >>
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> >
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