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Re: KillieTalk Digest V3 #66
Hi All,
It really disturbs me when I see someone having a problem hatching brine shrimp eggs!
My first guess is inferior quality eggs (cysts). My second guess is water that has insufficient salt or impure salt -like iodized salt. Use only pure pickling salt which contains NO additives. For Great Salt Lake BSEs use 98 grams (about 3.5 ozs.) per gallon of water having relative a softness (75 ppm or less) and a pH GREATER THAN 8.0!!! I assume the same would work for San Francisco Bay BSEs. I have no
experience with the Asian or Russian BSEs, but have heard only bad reports.
Tanks,
Bob Schwiegerath
Socorro, NM
KillieTalk Digest wrote:
> KillieTalk Digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 03 : Number 066
>
> In this issue:
>
> Notho sex change
> Killies and tanks
> Announcing the new online store.
> Re: Notho sex change
> Re: Hatching water
> Where can I get invert cultures?
> Re: In praise of peat plates.
> Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
> Re: Killies and tanks
> Sex Ratios
> Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
> Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
> Re: Killies and tanks
> Re: Killies and tanks
> Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
> Daphnia
> Re: Hatching water
>
> See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
> KillieTalk mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:38:02 -0600 (Canada Central Standard Time)
> From: Brian Watters <Brian.Watters at uregina_ca>
> Subject: Notho sex change
>
> Bela Nagy wrote:
>
> >
> > I had a spawning group of Noth. guentheri Zanzibar TAN 97/2.
> > ........all that remained home were two females. I put them
> > into a large community tank in the living room and after
> > two months, at the age of about six months, I observed that
> > one of the females began to color up!........
> > Earlier the fish was a clear female with all the
> > characteristics of the Notho females, brownish-grayish body,
> > transparent fins, the characteristic form of the anal
> > fin, etc.
> >
> > Sex-change is familiar among other fishes, did somebody
> > experienced it with Nothos?
> >
>
> In my experience, this is not very common with Nothos. I have, however,
> had this happen a number of times with two species - N. willerti and N.
> robustus. It has always occurred when the fish were quite old and the
> transformation from female to "male" has never been complete. Typically
> the fish will become very large, sometimes even larger than other males
> in the same tank, and it will develop some body and fin color
> approaching that of the male but never quite to the same extent. I have
> not observed these changed fish to show any interest in mating with
> other true females in the tank and, although I have not proved this, I
> doubt that they would be sexually viable as males. They also never
> develop a level of aggression similar to that of the true males.
>
> Lee Harper wrote:
>
> >
> > I ran an experiment about a year ago.......
> > ..... I had several hundred fry in a 10 gallon tank and
> > as soon as I could detect a male, I removed it. I kept
> > on removing males and more and more males kept appearing
> > even after several months....... I believe I ended up
> > with less than 6 bona fide females....
> >
>
> I would say this is somewhat different to what Bela has experienced and
> what I have described with N. willerti and N. robustus. In our cases we
> were dealing with mature fish of at least 6 months old.
> __________________________________________________
> Brian R. Watters
> Professor and Head
> Department of Geology
> University of Regina
> Regina, Sask. S4S 0A2, Canada
> Tel: (306) 585-4663
> Fax: (306) 585-5433
> E-mail: Brian.Watters at uregina_ca
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:03:37 EST
> From: JenGraham at aol_com
> Subject: Killies and tanks
>
> How many killies could you safely keep in a 10-gallon tank?
>
> Jen Graham
> - ---------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:42:45 -0800
> From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at cornell_edu>
> Subject: Announcing the new online store.
>
> The American Killifish Association is pleased to announce the opening of
> their new Online Store, which ......... blah, blah.
>
> Ok folks, I know I have been reading too many announcements on lists from
> vendors trying to hawk their wares.
>
> Seriously, I have been promising myself for some time to revamp the AKA's
> online store. It is now open with links from the home page
> (http://www/aka.org/) and from the appropriate pages on the AKA site.
> Thanks to the BOT for supporting the development of this new approach.
>
> The new store includes the ability to join the AKA (ie. membership apps),
> buy publications, and register for the convention. This is a database
> driven solution, which will make maintenance much easier. Each year, for
> example, I can just edit the various offerings for the convention in the
> database, and lo!
>
> The need to provide online registration for Convention 2000 was a major
> driving force in getting this done, so I have to thank those @#&#*@*&
> people at SKS for giving me a really challenging set of "goods" to offer. A
> printable PDF file will also be available for those people who don't want
> to register online. I recommend you use the link from Online Registration
> for Convention 2000 is now available, as it will take you to a useful
> explanation of the options available.
>
> In other words, Online Registration for Convention 2000 is now available.
> Get 'em while they're hot. This is a convention NOT to miss.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Barry
> Barry J. Cooper, Prof., Dept. Biomedical Sciences, Cornell University
> Current address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd.
> Sweet Home, OR 97386 (bjc3 at cornell_edu)
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:41:11 -0500
> From: "Christopher Graseck" <cgraseck at cloud9_net>
> Subject: Re: Notho sex change
>
> Forgive me for not having all of the details correct but this is an
> interesting story so I'll retell it as best I can. Several years ago, Ginny
> Eckstein (Famous Catfish Person) had a large pair of what I think were some
> kind of rare Central American Cichlid. They had spawned and eventually the
> male killed the female. Sometime after the females death (I think about 6
> months) the MALE decided to spawn with himself and laid eggs. Fertile eggs!
> They hatched and Ginny was no longer short on females.
>
> It really happened. No kidding.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if our Killies could perform that little trick?
>
> Chris Graseck
> Mahopac NY
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 01:26:51 -0800
> From: gunnar asblom <agakilli at algonet_se>
> Subject: Re: Hatching water
>
> halbasch at es_com wrote:
> >
> > In most of the books and web messages relating to egg storage or hatching it
> > is usually stressed to use the water that the eggs came from. It would seem
> > that fresh aged water, of the same temperature , pH etc, would be wiser. I
> > haven't read or heard of the reasoning behind the practice - other than it
> > works. Anyone care to elucidate and wax prosaic?
> >
> >
> > Steven G Halbasch
> >
> > Layton, Utah
> > ---------------
> > See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
> If I use fresh aged water instead of water from the tanks I will have
> problem with fungus.
> Gunnar.
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:28:12 PST
> From: "Jon Aquì" <ohimo at hotmail_com>
> Subject: Where can I get invert cultures?
>
> Alright, I'd like to feed my killies and other fish live foods. Problem is,
> I don't have any cultures, and I never have any luck w/ brine shrimp. So,
> does anyone know where I can get some starter cultures for any inverts? I
> don't even know what some of the best live foods are, but I'm really looking
> for something that won't stink horribly, will be fairly easy to maintain,
> and won't put a huge dent in my wallet. Suggestions? I remember reading a
> post somewhere (not here) about someone using a 5 1/2 gallon for daphnia,
> gammarus, infusoria, and some other stuff and I was wondering if anyone else
> used a similar "food tank" set up. Thanks in advance.
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:05:29 EST
> From: Nesdive at aol_com
> Subject: Re: In praise of peat plates.
>
> Thank you for the Microwave hint, I have been struggling with boiling it and
> this is a real time saver. I guess sometimes the obvious answer is right in
> front of us but we can't see it (Forest for the trees).
> Nestor Oliveira
> - ---------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:13:43 EST
> From: Nesdive at aol_com
> Subject: Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
>
> Besides keeping killies I breed Angelfish and the spawns number in the dozens
> if not hundreds sometimes, so feeding the fry the first 2 weeks requires a
> lot of food. The only easy live food that I have been able to use are
> "Vinegar Eels" unfortunately they stink to high heaven, but on the plus side
> they are very prolific and with a shoe box you can breed enough to feed an
> army of baby fish.
> Nestor Oliveira
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:49:41 +0000
> From: George Slusarczuk <yurko at warwick_net>
> Subject: Re: Killies and tanks
>
> Hello Jen,
>
> JenGraham at aol_com wrote:
> >
> > How many killies could you safely keep in a 10-gallon tank?
> >
> > Jen Graham
>
> E. annulatus or Blue Gularis?
>
> Best,
>
> George
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:26:18 -1000 (HST)
> From: Mach Fukada <fukada at aloha_net>
> Subject: Sex Ratios
>
> While we are on the subject of sex ratios, sex changes, etc. Anyone know
> what has the most influence on sex determination in Procatopus, temp or
> pH? Seems lately (Now that I have moved to Maui) I get really skewed
> ratios (30:1) male to female. My water is now very soft and acidic. I
> need to add all kinds of stuff to get it back to where they are
> comfortable. My temp may have been a bit high as well. Anyone know the
> optimal temps and water to produce females?
>
> MTF
>
> - ---------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:37:19 -1000 (HST)
> From: Mach Fukada <fukada at aloha_net>
> Subject: Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
>
> I have been fooling around with cultureing Daphnia in 5 gallon plastic
> buckets. Seems to work well given the right amount of space, light, temp,
> and access to greenwater (50+ gallons). I have found that one could set
> up a culture in 7 buckets, harvest/change water in 1 bucket a day and have
> enough to feed about 3-4 tanks of fish. I suppose the same could be done
> in 55 gallon plastic drum, again in 7 different drums, etc. Only need
> more greenwater. Same system can be used for moina (but they prefer warm
> weather), rotifers (but then you need only 2 buckets and alternate
> harvest). The biggest problem is having enough greenwater (I use goldfish
> in a well lit tank + spirulina flakes). Also trying a similar system in a
> 150 gallon stock tank. The daphnia are reproducing big time and they get
> fed greenwater, C. Grimes's Baby Sweet Potato solution + spirulina+ALGAMAC
> 2000, etc. Looks like they are doing well also. Can't comment on harvest
> yields at this time....
>
> MTF
>
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Jon Aquì wrote:
>
> > Alright, I'd like to feed my killies and other fish live foods. Problem is,
> > I don't have any cultures, and I never have any luck w/ brine shrimp. So,
> > does anyone know where I can get some starter cultures for any inverts? I
> > don't even know what some of the best live foods are, but I'm really looking
> > for something that won't stink horribly, will be fairly easy to maintain,
> > and won't put a huge dent in my wallet. Suggestions? I remember reading a
> > post somewhere (not here) about someone using a 5 1/2 gallon for daphnia,
> > gammarus, infusoria, and some other stuff and I was wondering if anyone else
> > used a similar "food tank" set up. Thanks in advance.
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> > ---------------
> > See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
> >
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:49:36 +0000
> From: George Slusarczuk <yurko at warwick_net>
> Subject: Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
>
> Hello Nestor,
>
> > Besides keeping killies I breed Angelfish and the spawns number in the > dozens if not hundreds sometimes, so feeding the fry the first 2 weeks > requires a lot of food. The only easy live food that I have been able > to use are "Vinegar Eels" unfortunately they stink to high heaven, but > on the plus side they are very prolific and with a shoe box you can > breed enough to feed an army of baby fish.
> > Nestor Oliveira
>
> What do you use as culture medium for microworms?
>
> I use unbreached corn meal, cooked, and sprinkled lightly with
> Fleischman's dry active yeast. Generally the culture has NO odor, but
> sometimes a slight fruity (or yeasty) odor develops. Not unpleasant.
>
> It is possible, that the odor is a function of culture medium or, it
> could be, of the species of microworms. In any case. my cultures do not
> have an unpleasant smell.
>
> Best,
>
> George
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:21:21 -0600
> From: "Scott Davis" <unclescott at prodigy_net>
> Subject: Re: Killies and tanks
>
> > How many killies could you safely keep in a 10-gallon tank?
>
> I know this doesn't answer your question directly, but how about if you
> start with a pair in a well planted tank and counted how many youngsters
> grew up with them. :)
>
> I certainly have kept four pairs of gardneri Misaje comfortably in a ten
> with cover plant and glass). They were raised together and had settled
> pecking order issues long before they grew to adult size. But there were no
> fry.
>
> A lot of it depends upon what you want to do. If you want to see how the
> killies interact with each other you might want to get a couple of pairs or
> trios. It is probably best to just have one species or one strain per tank.
> I would recommend getting young fish raised with each other. Too many and
> there will be casualties. On the other hand, a grow out tank of youngsters
> can be remarkably crowded.
>
> A caution: heavily populated tanks need lots of water changes. "Crazy Man's
> Disease" acidosis or pH plunge will happen when waste materials build up
> beyond a critical point. The then crazy fish will dart around the tank
> erratically and even kill themselves smashing into tank sides. A genuine
> danger of wiping everything out exists. One morning that was observed, a
> quarter teaspoon of plaster of Paris was dumped in as a holding action (hey
> it was what was available minutes before work.) That evening the entire tank
> was torn down, sloshed out and re-established. Everyone survived. With care,
> that didn't happen again.
>
> Years ago we set up a special tank for Aphanius mento. It was divided
> by rocks into zones with foliage zones to the sides and back (sort of like
> setting up an Apisto or Mbuna tank, but on a smaller scale.) At a CKA open
> house one of the members brought a couple of males to go with three lonely
> females. They danced and displayed in their newly established zones. So
> enthusiastic were the mentos that four of us sat on the rug just entranced
> about 3 AM (long after the others had left and the timers were re-set)
> watching their antics. The mento were also oblivious of the hour. It was one
> of those small wonders remembered long after...
>
> All the best!
>
> Scott
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:38:11 -0600
> From: "Scott Davis" <unclescott at prodigy_net>
> Subject: Re: Killies and tanks
>
> > How many killies could you safely keep in a 10-gallon tank?
>
> I know this doesn't answer your question directly, but how about if you
> start with a pair in a well planted tank and counted how many youngsters
> grew up with them. :)
>
> Certainly have kept four pairs of gardneri Misaje comfortably in a ten with
> cover plant and glass). They were raised together and had settled pecking
> order issues long before they grew to adult size. But there were no fry.
>
> By the way the tank really holds about 20 to 30 liters or 7-8 gallons of
> water. 12" by 11" by 24" does not a real ten gallon tank make.
>
> A lot depends upon what you want to do. If you want to see how the killies
> interact with each other you might want to get a couple of pairs or trios.
> It is best and wisest to just have one species or one strain per tank. Get
> young fish raised with each other. Too many and there will be casualties. On
> the other hand, a grow out tank of youngsters can be remarkably crowded.
>
> A caution: heavily populated tanks need lots of water changes. "Crazy Man's
> Disease," acidosis or pH plunge will happen when waste materials build up
> beyond a critical point. pH measures will drop dramatically and suddenly.
> The then crazy (read stressed) fish will dart around the tank erratically
> and even kill themselves smashing into tank sides or leaping oput of the
> tank. A genuine danger of wiping everything out exists. One morning that was
> observed, a quarter teaspoon of plaster of Paris was dumped in as a holding
> action (hey it was what was available minutes before work.) That evening
> the entire tank was torn down, sloshed out and re-established. Everyone
> survived. With care, that didn't happen again.
>
> Years ago we set up a special tank for Aphanius mento. It was divided
> by rocks into zones with foliage to the sides and back (sort of like setting
> up an Apisto or Mbuna tank, but on a smaller scale.) At a CKA "cottage
> meeting" here one of the members brought a couple of males to go with the
> three lonely females. They danced and strutted in their newly established
> zones. So enthusiastic were the mentos that four of us sat on the rug in
> front of the tank just entranced with their displays and antics until after
> 3 AM (long after the others had left and the timers were re-set). The mento
> were also oblivious of the hour. It was one of those small wonders
> remembered long after...
>
> All the best!
>
> Scott
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:06:21 -0600
> From: "Scott Davis" <unclescott at prodigy_net>
> Subject: Re: Where can I get invert cultures?
>
> From: Jon Aquì
>
> <Where can I get invert cultures?
>
> What town or city, what country do you live in John? Maybe there is a
> killie group nearby - someone usually has daphnia. If that is not viable,
> when the weather gets milder, one of us could sent you a starter. Daphnia
> don't mail as well as killies, but could in pretty cool weather.
>
> As to your brine shrimp, are you referring to baby bs or adults? For
> most of us, raising the somewhat related daphnias is easier, more efficient,
> more productive and without the salt creep.
>
> Several weather plastic tubs and trash cans (30 to 40 gallons each) in
> the shaded back yard, out of sight between the berry patch and the wood
> pile, are pretty productive, especially if water is changed and the cultures
> fed a little. Indoors an ancient 40 gallon breeder tank, set in a cool
> corner on the floor (costing four dollars late in a local fish club auction)
> is pretty productive. Feed is almost exclusively greenwater. Once in a while
> a yogurt container gets tossed in after a snack has consumed as much as
> possible. The goofy daphnia will congregate inside even cleaned out cups -
> making for a quick harvest of a small volume of food.
>
> That tank has been more productive since I recalled having absent
> mindedly flipped a single fish egg in there. The 5cm neon rainbow had done
> quite well for himself when finally spotted. To be really productive an
> airline with the hard tubing should be inserted (not with a really hard flow
> of bubbles) and water changes more frequently done.
>
> Once in a while I will get one odd egg or so of a killie I want and that
> fry will get tossed into a daphnia culture to brouse until it puts on some
> size. Naturally one must watch what they harvest.
>
> All the best!
>
> Scott
>
> PS to the list: Sorry about the double entry of a posting a little earlier.
> The first copy was accidentally sent before it was finished. Just the aging
> process - another warrenty running out!
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:22:29 -0800
> From: Barry Cooper <bjc3 at cornell_edu>
> Subject: Daphnia
>
> Here is my experience with culturing daphnia.
> Before I came out here to the western hinterlands (where I still don't have
> my fishroom set up) I had put a 300 gal stock tank (the black plastic kind)
> in my back yard. I put it in a hedgerow so that it got dappled sunlight. A
> lot of leaves fell into it each fall. I seeded it with dapnia bought from a
> supplier of pond fish. I suspect they were D. pulex, but I am not sure.
> I maintained the culture for about 4 years. I occasionally fed it with a
> teaspoonful of dried yeast suspended in water. I was able to harvest
> daphnia 2-3 times a week, sometimes up to a couple of ounces in packed
> volume. Each year the "pond" would freeze solid. The daphnia always came
> back and I would guess are there now (I still have that house in NY).
> I suspect that the source of food for these daphnia was infusoria and
> bacteria feeding on the leaf mulm on the bottom. I also suspect the water
> was soft, as the tank caught the rain, of which we got an appreciable
> amount. Finally, I think the large volume helps to make a self sustaining
> culture possible. I think it's probably hard work to keep a culture going
> in a small container, even feeding it.
> Barry
>
> Barry J. Cooper, Prof., Dept. Biomedical Sciences, Cornell University
> Current address: 27505 Riggs Hill Rd.
> Sweet Home, OR 97386 (bjc3 at cornell_edu)
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 21:13:35 -1000
> From: Peter Tirbak <pengwin at worldnet_att.net>
> Subject: Re: Hatching water
>
> I have always used fresh, aged water with a little salt in it, and have
> always done well.
>
> Peter Tirbak
>
> > From: gunnar asblom <agakilli at algonet_se>
> > Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
> > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 01:26:51 -0800
> > To: killietalk at aka_org
> > Subject: Re: Hatching water
> >
> > halbasch at es_com wrote:
> >>
> >> In most of the books and web messages relating to egg storage or hatching it
> >> is usually stressed to use the water that the eggs came from. It would seem
> >> that fresh aged water, of the same temperature , pH etc, would be wiser. I
> >> haven't read or heard of the reasoning behind the practice - other than it
> >> works. Anyone care to elucidate and wax prosaic?
> >>
> >>
> >> Steven G Halbasch
> >>
> >> Layton, Utah
> >> ---------------
> >> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
> > If I use fresh aged water instead of water from the tanks I will have
> > problem with fungus.
> > Gunnar.
> > ---------------
> > See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of KillieTalk Digest V3 #66
> *******************************
>
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