Re: [Killietalk] pH (was Re: copper leaching from new plumbing)

[Wright Huntley <whuntley at verizon_net>]

All good points, Ken.

We must never forget, too, the point Charles made that these things are 
often very species dependent. I can do stuff to Fp. that my Lampeyes 
would never forgive!

Wright

Kenneth Combs wrote:
> Interesting thread on pH....funny, for all the meters & test kit's I've bought, can't recall too many times I've actually bothered adjusting the pH anyway...
> Still....
> Wright wrote:
>   
>> Again, I suggest it is the impact of pH change on other chemistry that 
>> is usually most important, and understanding why a shipped bag of 
>> ammonium-loaded fish dies when exposed to local high-pH tap water 
>> (ammonia poisoning) is more important than thinking the fish are subject 
>> to an unreal thing like pH shock. 
>>     
>
> nice: esp the pH/water Chemistry interaction thing, pretty much why us reef fanactics monitor pH as a "indicator" variable...but gotta wonder how many discus breeders would test the pH shock theory by subjecting a tankfull of 7" breeders to a 6pt pH drop in a matter of hours (assuming the discus are in the "usual" zero nitrate pristine water many keep them in)
>
> ...I'm also reminded of that "Acid rain" panic of the 70's 80's (that went away once the "neocons" invaded DC)...there was once a lot of diatribe over "dead" lakes and pictures of floating brook trout in "acid pools"..anyhow, they way the media sold us simpleton joe public types was a direct cause & effect from the acid fall out as opposed to some complex "chemical interaction" from ammonia or whatever...and I realize we are talking killies not trout, but one guesses pH must matter on some level or did all those US Gov biologist frame the entire matter in a way us non PhD types can understand? ...
>
> Wright went on to explain (trunacated):
>   
>> ... which is deadly at very low 
>> levels. Their equilibrium is pH and temperature dependent. This or 
>> osmotic-pressure shock are the source of about 90% of the pH mythology 
>> (and temperature-shock mythology). Scheel reports sudden changes of 
>> three points in pH with no observed distress, and I have routinely 
>> ignored two or more points difference, as long as no ammonium or nitrite 
>> was present. I still often use drip acclimation for new fish, but mostly 
>> to avoid osmosis problems or to give the squirt of Amquel time to 
>> neutralize the ammonium.]
>>     
>
> Makes one wish the plethora of bad "Aquarium books" would expound on that, esp. as things get tricky when a tank's pH will oftentimes drift downward from biological processes or whatever...but, IME there is definetley a difference when dumping a fish directly from a bag into warm tank water vs. colder water (IMHO there is a distinction when going from warm-to-cold vs. cold-to-warmer, regardless)...there also appears to be a difference if said water originates from a pipe (spicket/tap)...basically I'm wondering if "temperature shock" has been the scapegoat when the real culprit might have been a diff. in disolved gasses or lack thereof...("N2 shock" ain't no myth)
>
> KC
>
>   


-- 
760 872-3995 760 937-2276 (Cell)
RR 001 Box K36
[85 Schober Ln. Sp 36]
Bishop, CA 93514

Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
Modify your subscription at http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk