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Re: black worms
I have thought for some time now that chopping up black worms just makes
more. If I overfeed they seem to quite able to survive a few days,provided
the pieces aren't too small. Just never had the time to try to grow the
chopped worms out.
Mike Slocum
Warren, RI
>From: Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org (KillieTalk Digest)
>Reply-To: KillieTalk at AKA_Org
>To: Owner-KillieTalk at AKA_Org
>Subject: KillieTalk Digest V4 #596
>Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 04:57:41 -0500
>
>KillieTalk Digest Tuesday, December 3 2002 Volume 04 : Number 596
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
> RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
> RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
>
>See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
>KillieTalk mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:33:22 +0200
>From: "Tyrone Genade" <Tgenade at sun_ac.za>
>Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
>
>On 3 Dec 2002 at 2:20, Tranquility Base wrote:
>
> > Over all I'm not against keeping endangered fish in the hobby, I am
> > just against the hobby taking too many endangered fish out of the
> > wild, where they should be in the first place. And I think species
> > maintenence is a great idea, I just would not bet the farm on it, if
> > there was any better way.
>
>I'm one of those people who will pay big money for a
>small breeding group of Devil's hole pupfish...
>
>Species maintenance projects (SMP) are a great idea,
>but what for?
>
>The most successful case so far would be the Fp.
>walkeri "Kutunse GH2" initiative but what was the end
>goal? To reintroduce the fish back in the wild? Maybe
>if some-one built a pond in the middle of the
>parkinglot/market... It served to preserve this fish
>for the hobby. That will be the end result of the
>elberti "N'Tui" SMP as well as the S. marginatus SMP.
>(Although it could be possible to reintroduce the
>marginatus to the rice-paddy that was its home if it
>isn't still there as I write this, spawning happily
>away among the rice plants like so many an African
>notho.)
>
>We fool our selves is we think that a SMP will save a
>fish in the wild. It may well save a fish from
>extinction but it will be far gone from the wild. After
>several generations of captive breeding it may well not
>even resemble the wild fish that was its ancestor. Is
>the walkeri GH2 today the same walkeri GH2 we had in
>^insert date of original collection^? If not, have we
>really saved this species/strain/population?
>
>RJ is right, step one in any conservation effort should
>be to preserve the habitat. Step two should be to
>establish multiple captive breeding stocks along the
>lines of large facilities able to maintain large
>stocks. Step 3 would be to introduce the captive bred
>stocks to the trade. Flood the market with cheaper good
>quality fish and force the illegal trader out of
>business.
>
>We seem to want to start at step 3 and try and
>accomplish step 1. It doesn't work that way. Several
>hundred elephants are maintained in zoos around the
>world. Do those zoo populations ensure the survival of
>the species? Not a chance. There isn't 1 large enough
>breeding group in captivity.
>
>(Several South African countries have just got
>permission to sell there stockpiled ivory. Is this
>going to cause a resurgence in poaching? No, the
>smuggler is going to be priced out of the market.)
>
>I'm running the SAA group and am battling to get some
>SMPs going. The goal is not to preserve any species but
>simply to maintain the species in captivity for future
>generations with the goal of leaving the wild fish in
>the wild (if they are still there).
>
>From the internal census we did a few months ago it was
>evident that the most popular fish are also the newer
>ones. The more flashy ones. S. picturatus, magnificus,
>fulminantis, G. zonatus... Yet the most popular species
>was A. nigripinnis. Why? NIG has been with us for a
>long time, it is easily available and easy to maintain.
>It has pleasing colour and behaviour. If you want to
>establish pupfish in the hobby find such a species:
>easy to maintain, looks nice and has interesting
>behaviour. Probably just as important would be to find
>one that isn't critically endangered and isn't illegal
>to keep.
>
>tt4nTyrone Genade
>tgenade at sun_ac.za
>http://www.tyronegenade.0catch.com
>cell#: 084-3354-977
>
>*******************************************************
>******
>P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
>University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
>Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
>*******************************************************
>***
>
>"Seek your happiness in the Lord."
> Psalms 37:4
>
>
>- ---------------
>See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 10:22:21 +0100
>From: "Joseph" <jazz001 at di-ve_com>
>Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
>
>lets get a case a fish living in a particular pool remember this is the
>only type and this is the only location this fish lives in.
>the pool is becoming contaminated and the fish are dying so this is an
>endangered fish.
>if you leave the fish to their own they will eventually die off.
>if you will breed the and maybe then release them in an other pool they
>will
>not cease to exist.
>there are implications to this, what if there are other fish in the other
>poll not compatible with this and this fish will exterminate the other?
>what
>if the water in the other pool is not the same? and other dilemmas that
>cannot be solved on paper
>result I leave it to you
>jazz
>MALTA
>
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-killietalk at AKA_Org [mailto:owner-killietalk at AKA_Org]On
>Behalf Of Tyrone Genade
>Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 9:33 AM
>To: killietalk at AKA_Org
>Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
>
>
>On 3 Dec 2002 at 2:20, Tranquility Base wrote:
>
> > Over all I'm not against keeping endangered fish in the hobby, I am
> > just against the hobby taking too many endangered fish out of the
> > wild, where they should be in the first place. And I think species
> > maintenence is a great idea, I just would not bet the farm on it, if
> > there was any better way.
>
>I'm one of those people who will pay big money for a
>small breeding group of Devil's hole pupfish...
>
>Species maintenance projects (SMP) are a great idea,
>but what for?
>
>The most successful case so far would be the Fp.
>walkeri "Kutunse GH2" initiative but what was the end
>goal? To reintroduce the fish back in the wild? Maybe
>if some-one built a pond in the middle of the
>parkinglot/market... It served to preserve this fish
>for the hobby. That will be the end result of the
>elberti "N'Tui" SMP as well as the S. marginatus SMP.
>(Although it could be possible to reintroduce the
>marginatus to the rice-paddy that was its home if it
>isn't still there as I write this, spawning happily
>away among the rice plants like so many an African
>notho.)
>
>We fool our selves is we think that a SMP will save a
>fish in the wild. It may well save a fish from
>extinction but it will be far gone from the wild. After
>several generations of captive breeding it may well not
>even resemble the wild fish that was its ancestor. Is
>the walkeri GH2 today the same walkeri GH2 we had in
>^insert date of original collection^? If not, have we
>really saved this species/strain/population?
>
>RJ is right, step one in any conservation effort should
>be to preserve the habitat. Step two should be to
>establish multiple captive breeding stocks along the
>lines of large facilities able to maintain large
>stocks. Step 3 would be to introduce the captive bred
>stocks to the trade. Flood the market with cheaper good
>quality fish and force the illegal trader out of
>business.
>
>We seem to want to start at step 3 and try and
>accomplish step 1. It doesn't work that way. Several
>hundred elephants are maintained in zoos around the
>world. Do those zoo populations ensure the survival of
>the species? Not a chance. There isn't 1 large enough
>breeding group in captivity.
>
>(Several South African countries have just got
>permission to sell there stockpiled ivory. Is this
>going to cause a resurgence in poaching? No, the
>smuggler is going to be priced out of the market.)
>
>I'm running the SAA group and am battling to get some
>SMPs going. The goal is not to preserve any species but
>simply to maintain the species in captivity for future
>generations with the goal of leaving the wild fish in
>the wild (if they are still there).
>
>From the internal census we did a few months ago it was
>evident that the most popular fish are also the newer
>ones. The more flashy ones. S. picturatus, magnificus,
>fulminantis, G. zonatus... Yet the most popular species
>was A. nigripinnis. Why? NIG has been with us for a
>long time, it is easily available and easy to maintain.
>It has pleasing colour and behaviour. If you want to
>establish pupfish in the hobby find such a species:
>easy to maintain, looks nice and has interesting
>behaviour. Probably just as important would be to find
>one that isn't critically endangered and isn't illegal
>to keep.
>
>tt4nTyrone Genade
>tgenade at sun_ac.za
>http://www.tyronegenade.0catch.com
>cell#: 084-3354-977
>
>*******************************************************
>******
>P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
>University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
>Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
>*******************************************************
>***
>
>"Seek your happiness in the Lord."
> Psalms 37:4
>
>
>- ---------------
>See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
>
>
>- ---------------
>See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:47:46 +0200
>From: "Tyrone Genade" <Tgenade at sun_ac.za>
>Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish (longish)-even longer
>
>On 3 Dec 2002 at 10:22, Joseph wrote:
>
> > if you will breed the and maybe then release them
> > in an other pool they will not cease to exist. there are implications
> > to this, what if there are other fish in the other poll not compatible
> > with this and this fish will exterminate the other?
>
>Our local Board of Nature Conservation did this with
>seval species that seemed under threat. They are now
>pests in other rivers.
>
>It doesn't matter what the fish is or how endangerred
>it is. Put it some where else and it will become a
>feral pest that competes with the natives for space and
>resources.
>
>Then again this is fine if you feel the other species
>are expendable.
>
>If we conserve the native habitat we will preserve the
>ecosystem the fish lives in along with all the species
>that make up that ecosystem.
>
>The Devil's Hole pupfish is a good example of this.
>Water dropping because of farmers? Stop the drop in
>water, habitat safe, fish live happly again (granted
>they have lost a big chunk of their habitat).
>
>Rather tha discuss the ethics perhaps you should be
>bugging the government about what it is doing and
>perhaps volunteer your help, be it financial or time.
>
>Initiating an AKA-government conservation project may
>not be a bad idea. It would certainly boost the AKA's
>PR as well and bring all the best qualified minds
>together to tackle the issue.
>
>tt4nTyrone Genade
>tgenade at sun_ac.za
>http://www.tyronegenade.0catch.com
>cell#: 084-3354-977
>
>*******************************************************
>******
>P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
>University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
>Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
>*******************************************************
>***
>
>"Seek your happiness in the Lord."
> Psalms 37:4
>
>
>- ---------------
>See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of KillieTalk Digest V4 #596
>********************************
>
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