Re: Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish

["Al Anderson" <killiman at iquest_net>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tranquility Base" <TranquilityBase at NetZero_Net>
To: <killietalk at AKA_Org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 2:20 AM
Subject: RE: Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish


> Here in NJ propagation is not a sufficient reason to get a
> threatened/endangered species permit. Such permits can only be issued to
> certain facilities and under very specific conditions. There is another
law
> in NJ which requires all animals used in research to be destroyed
humanely.
> Our legislators have long since wised up when it comes to the permit
> process. Someone already figured out that all they needed was a permit, so
> the state just doesn't issue them to individuals anymore.
>
> Peace,
>
> ~RJ~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-killietalk at AKA_Org [mailto:owner-killietalk at AKA_Org]On
> Behalf Of Nick Ternes
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 1:07 AM
> To: KillieTalk at AKA_Org
> Subject: Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish
>
>
>
> >Because of the stupidity of our lawmakers, anything that goes extinct >in
> >the US is really extinct, for keeping them in captivity is a >serious
crime
> >except under most unusual circumstances. I'm not aware >of any recently
> >extinct US *Cyprinodon*s beside *b. calidae*, but >there are several
> >*Empetrichthys*, I think, that have been lost in >recent years. We'll
> >likely lose *Cyprinodon radiosus* one of these >days, as 7 different
govt.
> >agencies engage in turf wars over their >dwindling habitats and numbers.
> >Meanwhile, hobbyists are forbidden to >keep any alive, for that would
take
> >pressure off that career-building >turf war. The agencies often *need*
them
> >in serious danger to get >their budgets approved.
>
> I don't know about other states, but here in WI you can get a permit to
> collect threatened/endangered species for scientific purposes, which
> includes propagation of the species.  It's not ridiculously expensive
> either, like $25.
>
> >Earlier exports to Europe, and maybe even a little smuggling, have
>assured
> >that most of the endangered and now extinct pupfish species of >Mexico
are
> >still alive and well.
>
> If it still exists somewhere it isn't extinct, but extirpated.
>
> >Some argue that you can never reintroduce aquarium-raised fish to the
> > >wild. Those of us who spend a lot of our weekends at places like
>Roger's
> >Spring and Ash Meadows, removing "tropical" exotics,
> >can tell you how utterly wrong-headed *they* are. :-) Wright
>
> Actually those who say such things are right in a sense as with
> aquarium-raised fish it becomes hard to avoid in-breeding/out-breeding
> depressions and all sorts of other neat things you learn about when
dealing
> with wildlife biology.  Especially when dealing with limited populations.
> Although the species may proliferate when re-introduced to the wild, it's
> genetics are either limited which will lead to population decline, or it's
> genetics are no longer their own, leading to the loss of the species
anyway.
>   An example would be inter-specific hybrids or even subspecies hybrids.
> Which is why most killi enthusiasts don't crossbreed fish from different
> locales.  They may eventually be classified as seperate species.
>
>
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