RE: Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish

["Tranquility Base" <TranquilityBase at NetZero_Net>]

Here in NJ propagation is not a sufficient reason to get a
threatened/endangered species permit. Such permits can only be issued to
certain facilities and under very specific conditions. There is another law
in NJ which requires all animals used in research to be destroyed humanely.
Our legislators have long since wised up when it comes to the permit
process. Someone already figured out that all they needed was a permit, so
the state just doesn't issue them to individuals anymore.

Peace,

~RJ~

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-killietalk at AKA_Org [mailto:owner-killietalk at AKA_Org]On
Behalf Of Nick Ternes
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 1:07 AM
To: KillieTalk at AKA_Org
Subject: Subject: RE: "Extinct" pupfish



>Because of the stupidity of our lawmakers, anything that goes extinct >in
>the US is really extinct, for keeping them in captivity is a >serious crime
>except under most unusual circumstances. I'm not aware >of any recently
>extinct US *Cyprinodon*s beside *b. calidae*, but >there are several
>*Empetrichthys*, I think, that have been lost in >recent years. We'll
>likely lose *Cyprinodon radiosus* one of these >days, as 7 different govt.
>agencies engage in turf wars over their >dwindling habitats and numbers.
>Meanwhile, hobbyists are forbidden to >keep any alive, for that would take
>pressure off that career-building >turf war. The agencies often *need* them
>in serious danger to get >their budgets approved.

I don't know about other states, but here in WI you can get a permit to
collect threatened/endangered species for scientific purposes, which
includes propagation of the species.  It's not ridiculously expensive
either, like $25.

>Earlier exports to Europe, and maybe even a little smuggling, have >assured
>that most of the endangered and now extinct pupfish species of >Mexico are
>still alive and well.

If it still exists somewhere it isn't extinct, but extirpated.

>Some argue that you can never reintroduce aquarium-raised fish to the
> >wild. Those of us who spend a lot of our weekends at places like >Roger's
>Spring and Ash Meadows, removing "tropical" exotics,
>can tell you how utterly wrong-headed *they* are. :-) Wright

Actually those who say such things are right in a sense as with
aquarium-raised fish it becomes hard to avoid in-breeding/out-breeding
depressions and all sorts of other neat things you learn about when dealing
with wildlife biology.  Especially when dealing with limited populations.
Although the species may proliferate when re-introduced to the wild, it's
genetics are either limited which will lead to population decline, or it's
genetics are no longer their own, leading to the loss of the species anyway.
  An example would be inter-specific hybrids or even subspecies hybrids.
Which is why most killi enthusiasts don't crossbreed fish from different
locales.  They may eventually be classified as seperate species.


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