Re: Heterandria formosa - is it a Killi?

["Tyrone Genade" <Tgenade at sun_ac.za>]

On 31 Jul 2002, at 15:19, Scott Davis wrote:

> Thank you both for the for the comforting words below and the great
> source. I really could have used it a couple of weeks ago when
> spending hours looking up something on Rainbows for a little club
> event.

Yes, thats how things go. You never have what you "really" need when 
you need it but sure enough it will turn up next week.

> Your observation that none of the taxonomy games have changed the
> essential nature of our killies is a source of solace for those of us
> who can't tell one head bone from another nor really want to.

Accepting that our knowledge of the world is only as good as the 
tools we use to look at it then we must accept that the taxonomy will 
change again so why get hung-up on it this time round.

I like guppies, swords, platies, mollies, lamp-eyes, nothos, SAAs 
etc... Even if by some small chance they end up grouped with Cichlids 
I'm still going to like them and as the AKA or what ever you are all 
about the fish you like. Their classification is not really important.

> Chip's nomination of Pygmy Livebearer for the "Hets" is a terrific
> idea. (It's good to have a resource person and story teller of his
> stature on this list too.)

Why change the name? That will only confuse things further. H. 
formosa got its name because it was the smallest fish found in the 
ditch compared to the relatively gigantic Fundulus. It is the 'least 
killifish' for all pretence and purposes.
 
> Aren't the formosa the smallest vertebrate in North America? I think
> they are all the way up to about the 6th smallest vertebrate
> world-wide now. (They keep finding these little gobies in the
> Philippines.)

Some of those gobies are darn cute!
 
> And yet, as if the taxonomists didn't confound us ordinary bums enough
> with classification clarifications and revisions, now it seems that
> the livebearering toothed carps and egg laying toothed carps have a
> history in many ways intertwined.

Without doubt! These are all ancient fish which have gone through 
every imaginable upheavel and have no doubt developed amazing means 
of reproduction: from annualism to livebearing. Amazing hey!

> raise some mind boggling thoughts for those (like
> me) who like everything sorted out in neat little non-threatening
> categories. 

I like the nice orderred life portrayed in traditional science but 
you, the chaos is far more fun and there is no such thing as order. 
Everything changes all the time.

> One of Parenti's contentions is that livebearing is
> something that has evolved in several different situations and should
> not be a criterion for graphing relationships or drawing cardiograms.

Well that doesn't sound so suprising at all.

> So there is Poeciliid Tomeurus gracilis (something of a half way
> creature between what we think of as our traditional killies and out
> traditional livebearers) which internally fertilizes females who then
> lay eggs.

Cool! I want one.

> Could it be that the Poeciliids and the Goodieds sprang from "our
> killifish"?

No doubt in my mind.
 
> Getting closer to "home", Rivulins such as Cynopoecilus melanotaenia
> and Campellolebias brucei have modified anal fins which indicate that
> their females in some situations could have their eggs fertilized
> within their bodies.

Wow, I will have to get some of those and have a look...

> Dawes even pulls out the case of a tetra which seems to practice
> internal fertilization! (Never mind all those sharks and surf
> perches.)

Old news, there was a series of article by Wiezman in TFH during 1997 
I think.
 
> Interesting that the West Coast weekend has both killie and livebearer
> strands. Sue Bunte mentioned something similar yesterday with the
> announcement of the Sacramento show.

Perhaps we should encourage this type of interchange of ideas. I'm 
sure the livebearer nuts are looking for converts much like us and 
guppies make good comunity fish for large rivulins etc...
 
> I'll bet many of us who just keep killies once cut their aquatic teeth
> on one of the commercial livebearers. Several confirmed killinuts also
> will admit to having that tank of Het. formosa.

Platies. My all time favourite.

Keep well

Tyrone Genade
tgenade at sun_ac.za
http://www.tyronegenade.0catch.com

*************************************************************
P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
**********************************************************

"Seek your happiness in the Lord."
                  Psalms 37:4
---------------
See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/AKA/Applic.htm