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Re: labeling (wasExtinction) (was Re: Fp. robertsoni)
Tyrone, thanks for your opionions on strains and purity and I agree with
you. I think what is important is that we, as hobbyists, are accurate in
identifying what we are passing out. If it is a pure strain, 100% traceable
to a location, it should be labeled as such. If it is a mixture of wild
caught strains as in many gardneri or australe which have been hobby-bred
for decades, it should be labeled only with the species name. I observe
that there are hobbyist who like to label their "aquarium strains" of
gardneri as gardneri "Akure" because that is what they most closely
resemble, despite the fact that it is an "aquarium strain" which, I'd bet,
came out of a pet shop somewhere in New Jersey some time in the past.
It is the strain mixing issue which troubled me at the start of this
thread. Many "purists" will be very adamant about the evils of mixing
strains. But you in your response, you noted that your australe were
healthy and viable due, in great part, to introduction of some new genes
into your pool several years back. The important thing is that we label
our domestic populations to accurately describe their locational purity (or
lack of).
"Tyrone
Genade" To: killietalk at aka_org
<Tgenade@AKAD. cc:
SUN.AC.ZA> Subject: Re: Extinction (was Re: Fp.
Sent by: robertsoni)
owner-killieta
lk at aka_org
05/02/02 08:05
AM
Please respond
to killietalk
On 1 May 2002, at 13:45, Edd.Kray at rf_doe.gov wrote:
> Isn't this why the
> australe, in the hobby for 50 years, is now runty and poorly colored
> vs wild stock ?
I don't know about your australe but mine are fit and vibrant.
Locally we crossed the gold and wt strains 4 years back. The results
have been very impressive both in regard to colour, size and egg
production.
> I have this issue with my huberi strain...IS it better to let my aquarium
> strain die out, or to mix in genes from a slightly different locality?
> Tough decision for me.
I have no qualms about crossing out a new australe strain and an old
one (I attempted to bring in some of the wild australe from Bill's
stock lost year for this very purpose, granted I want to do it for
genetic experiments regarding the spotless genes). If all the huberi
appear to be huberi (unlike all the gardneri types) then why not?
Just remember to lable the fish as huberi "Aquarium" or huberi "Type
A x Type B" or something to keep track.
If I got wild dageti monroviea today I would cross them with my old
strain in a few weeks time (quarantine...).
The point is: we can't tell the species from each other in many fish
species while in others we can. A good example is the
Chromaphyosemion and Fp. gulara/fallax/deltaense "complexes" vs the
australe and calliurum species which are easily separated. We must
just apply a little thought. Don't cross strains where there is any
chance you are crossing 2 species and don't sell the fish for what it
is no longer.
> Do we have a contradiction in principles in our breeding programs, the
> need for genetic diversity vs the desire to maintain our strains as
> distinct as they were from the wild? But then who is to say how
> distinct they were in the wild. Its the hobbyists guess.
We don't have a contradiction but rather a balance. For any
conservation initiative we need a good size population size. 3 prs is
not enough.
Further more, if the population is very hetrozygous it is easy to
start subconsiously fixing strains ("that one doesn't look like the
type picture... eat well Mr. Oscar") which is why genetic exchange is
very important between breeders. I was just contacted by the
alternatus maintenance group about an egg exchange. Personally I
think an exchange every 3 generations would be adequate. If you are
working with large populations (10 or say prs) then in 3 generatiosn
you should have 99% of the original genetic complement. (You are
going to loose genes and gene combinations regardless... it is called
evolution.)
Good luck with your breeding plans.
Tyrone Genade
tyronegenade at yahoo_com
http://www.tyronegenade.0catch.com
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P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
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"No, the LORD has told us what is good. What He requires
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and to live in humble fellowship with our GOD."
Micah 6:8
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