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RE: "Algone" - I think I get it (Algone's response)

To: killietalk at aka_org
Subject: RE: "Algone" - I think I get it (Algone's response)
From: "Jason Owens" <jasonvowens at hotmail_com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:08:23 -0500
RJ,

Algone sent me the following email today:

Dear Jason,

thank you for your email, I am glad to confirm your theory.
The content of the pouches are in fact a mixture of plant fibers that act,
as you have described it, like a plant in a pouch.
The tannins that you describe is a visible sign of overdose, which is
reached at about 1 pouch per 2 Gallons of water. The yellowish discoloration
will not be harmful to the fish and can quickly be removed by activated
carbon.

The reduction of excess nutrients, nutrients the tank is unable to convert
on its own, results in lack of food for the algae. Algae growth can
therefore be controlled. Nevertheless, Algone will not nuke the tank of
algae. Algae do play an important role in the aquatic system by providing
enzymes for a balanced environment as well as a supplemental nutrient source
for many species.
The goal of every hobbyist should be to control the growth not to completely
eliminate it as many if not all chemicals do. While chemicals will get rid
of algae by destroying their photosynthesis cells (smiazine) the nutrients
are still in the water ready for the new spores to feed of.

Since you have created the wording of "plant in the pouch" I would like to
add that Algone will not deprive the plants or the aquarium of trace
elements needed, nor will Algone deprive the plants of the much needed
nitrogen compounds.
Plants are a higher form of living than algae. Single celled algae are the
lowest form followed by multi celled algae (micro and macro algae, micro
being most of the nuisance algae in the hobby). Next up would be the non
bloomers and the bloomers (as in plants).
This works like a food chain from top to bottom. Controlling the nutrients
will result in a competition of the leftovers. Plants will outcompete the
algae for nutrients, thus posing little risk to the well being of the
plants.
Furthermore, plants have the ability to store nitrogen within their root
system through which they take on the nitrogen compounds more easily than
through the leaves.
There is of course a minimal risk of nitrate/ nitrogen depletion if the
readings go down to 0 ppm on a long term basis. In this case Algone can be
removed and replaced at a later time. But a 0 reading does not generally
indicate a nitrate/ nitrogen depletion.
Minimal risk is because of the continuous formation of nitrate/ nitrogen in
the substrate. The plants will be the first ones to have access to the
nutrients before they are released into the water column. Algone will
"filter" the water, therefore removing the excess nutrients after the plants
got hold of their nitrate/ nitrogen demands.

I hope I could provide you with the answers to your questions. Please feel
free to contact us anytime if you have follow up questions or comments.

Have a good weekend,

Thilo

Thilo M. Boensch
Algone Corporation
http://www.algone.com

Phone:
1-877-425-4663 (US & Canada)
+ 724-453-1833 (International)

Fax:
+ 724-453-0454


----- Original Message -----
From: Customer Service - Algone Corporation <info at algone_com>
To: Thilo Boensch <tboensch at algone_com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: FW: Question


>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jason Owens [mailto:jasonvowens at hotmail_com]
>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:55 AM
>To: info at algone_com
>Subject: Question
>
>
>Dear Algone,
>
>I will buy your product if and only if you can answer the following
>question: what is in your pouches?  I'm not interested in the "process"
that
>ensues after placing a pounch in one's filter...I need to know what's in
>there in order for me to risk placing such an additive in my tank.
>
>If, in response to this email, you simply state that Algone is "all
natural"
>and won't hurt my tank, fish, plants, or filter, I will NOT buy it.  Such
an
>answer is not sufficient to put my tank at risk.  And please do not say
it's
>"secret."  I'm not asking for the scietific name of the contents...just a
>general explanation...such as whether the contents of an Algone pouch is,
in
>fact, plant matter.
>
>Reading between the lines of your marketing claims, I'm guessing it's some
>kind of plant matter inside the Algone pouch.  It's a well known fact that
a
>well-planted tank will not suffer from too much algae growth because the
>plants "eat" the nitrates in the water that also serve as food for algae.
>Without this food the algae cannot grow.
>
>Is Algone simply a "plant in a pouch"?  If so, I would probably buy it.
This
>would certainly explain your claims that Algone naturally reduces nitrates
>and increases oxygen...and would also explain why adding multiple pouches
>can result in tannins being released in the water.
>
>But because your website fails to convey what IS in the pouch - explaining
>only in general terms the "results" of placing a pounch in a tank - I
simply
>cannot purchase any Algone.  If you can answer my question, however, I
will
>certainly consider buying some...and endorcing your product in the
multiple
>Internet fishkeeping circles I travel in.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Jason Owens
>Newton, MA
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx




>From: "Tranquility Base" <TranquilityBase at NetZero_Net>
>Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
>Subject: RE: "Algone" - I think I get it (FINAL NOTE)
>Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:01:49 -0500
>
>Hi Jason,
>
>Plant fibers are useless unless they are actually alive as I understand
>biology. Plants primarily use photosynthesis to break down ammonia and
>nitrite. As they consume the food in the presence of light they grow.
>
>If their product really were a nitrate hungry plant it would only live in
>the lighted area of the tank and it would grow. It would eventually become
>noticeable. Sounds a lot like algae doesn't it?  It thought the original
>purpose of the product was to get rid of algae.
>
>The web site lists their product under chemical filtration along with 
>carbon
>and zeolites. This makes me more inclined to think that they are marketing
>some form of resin.
>
>I e-mailed the Algone people and if they reply I will share it with the
>list.
>
>Peace,
>
>~RJ~
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-killietalk at aka_org [mailto:owner-killietalk at aka_org]On
>Behalf Of Jason Owens
>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 10:24 AM
>To: killietalk at aka_org
>Subject: Re: "Algone" - I think I get it (FINAL NOTE)
>
>
>Ok, here's my last post on Algone.
>
>I gave in and finally called them to satisfy my curiousity.  The operator
>who answered readily confirmed my theory: Algone pouches contain nothing
>more than plant fibers.  These fibers, he explained, are simply extremely
>nitrate-hungry plants that sap the nutrients in the water that algae feeds
>on.
>
>So, it's safe for fish.  Technically, it's safe for plants too...though the
>nitrate eating action will remove your plant's neutrient source as well.  I
>might even recommend Algone to people who don't have live plants in their
>tank based on the conversation I had...
>
>Anyway, that's it.  I'm all done investigating Algone.  Hope I haven't 
>bored
>everyone too much!
>
>-- jason
>
>
> >From: "Jason Owens" <jasonvowens at hotmail_com>
> >Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
> >To: killietalk at aka_org
> >Subject: "Algone" - I think I get it
> >Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:41:11 -0500
> >
> >Algone does not explain what it puts in its little pouches, so this is an
> >educated guess...but, reading between the lines of their claims (that
> >Algone
> >"naturally" decreases Nitrate and increases oxygen without introducing 
>ANY
> >chemicals to your tank), I think I've figured out how Algone works.  If
> >anyone chooses to use it is another story...
> >
> >HERE WE GO:
> >
> >As you know, live plants can eliminate algae.  This happens because 
>plants
> >feed off the same nitrates that algae does...so when the plants use up 
>all
> >the nitrate in the tank, there's no nutrients left for the algae to feed
> >on...stopping its grown.  Simple stuff, really.
> >
> >Algone - although it doesn't explicitly explain this on its supposedly
> >informative website - almost surely works this way: it's a plant in a
> >pouch.
> >  In essense, the pouch is filled with some kind of plant matter that
> >itself
> >"eats" the nitrates in the water.  In the process, it probably helps 
>clean
> >some of the ammonia and nitrites from the water, add oxygen, etc...much 
>the
> >way plants do in a well planted tank.  In short, adding an Algone pouch 
>to
> >your filter is like adding an extremely nitrate-hungry plant to your 
>tank.
> >Not such a bad thing, right?
> >
> >My problem with Algone is that, instead of simply explaining this natural
> >and seemingly attractive process, it cloaks its product in
> >pseudo-scientific
> >mumbo-jumbo to bill itself as a "miracle cure."  Most likely, if Algone
> >works in the way I describe the product IS in fact a safe, maybe even
> >effective additive.  Plants are good for a tank, so adding Algone may be
> >too.  You just wish they were more upfront.
> >
> >In the end, I refuse to buy such a product because they're not honest 
>about
> >things.  If they came out and SAID what's in the pouch, I might have
> >interest.  Regardless, I can say this about Algone: the single biggest
> >claim
> >they make over and over and over, is that it's natural and it won't hurt
> >you
> >fish or plants even at extraorinarily high levels.  So...if you have a
> >really bad algae problem and you're desperate, it could be worth a try.
> >I'm
> >quite sure it's no miracle cure, but if it works in the way I suggest, it
> >might just help a bit.
> >
> >Otherwise, I'd wait until they get honest.
> >
> >-- JO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Tranquility Base" <TranquilityBase at NetZero_Net>
> >>Reply-To: killietalk at aka_org
> >>To: <killietalk at aka_org>
> >>Subject: RE: Is "Algone" a scam?
> >>Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 02:06:54 -0500
> >>
> >>Hi Jason:
> >>
> >>I have never tried the product. Everyone is looking to market something.
> >>Some work perfectly others do not work at all. Most are somewhere in
> >>between. And a few will even kill your fish.
> >>
> >>I would call the manufacturer and ask them how their product works. How
> >>does
> >>it deal with the nitrates which the algae would usually take up. How 
>does
> >>it
> >>affect pH and hardness. Is it safe for other plants and if so which 
>ones?
> >>What about the fish or eggs? I have made many such calls over the years
> >>and
> >>I have been amazed how honest many manufacturers are. I was once told by 
>a
> >>manufacturer that their product was not for "fish breeders" another told
> >>me
> >>that their product would not work in tanks with a high population 
>density.
> >>Others have given me similar useful information regarding their product.
> >>Its easier to exaggerate in print and harder for them to lie on the 
>phone
> >>when you ask direct questions.
> >>
> >>And finally, if they answer your questions satisfactorily, you have to 
>try
> >>it. Then let the rest of us know how it works.
> >>
> >>It is always tempting to say that something new most likely will not 
>work.
> >>History proves this to be true. But sometimes you have to try new 
>products
> >>because every once in a while something new which works a treat comes 
>out.
> >>
> >>Peace,
> >>
> >>~RJ~
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: owner-killietalk at aka_org [mailto:owner-killietalk at aka_org]On
> >>Behalf Of Jason Owens
> >>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:00 PM
> >>To: killietalk at aka_org
> >>Subject: Is "Algone" a scam?
> >>
> >>
> >>Does anyone have experience with a product called Algone?  Their website
> >>(www.algone.com) purports that it's a 100% safe and natural way to 
>control
> >>and eliminate algae in both fresh and marine fish tanks.
> >>
> >>If you visit the site, you'll see that Algone's site is peppered with
> >>testimonials (Chris T. from Texas says it's great, Sally P. from New 
>York
> >>says it's a miracle) and "scientific" documentation, yet Internet 
>searches
> >>on Google, Yahoo, and Northernlight.com have yielded almost nothing on
> >>this
> >>product or its effectiveness.
> >>
> >>Basically...considering the thriving nature of the online fishkeeping
> >>community, the widespread problem of algae growth in tanks, and the
> >>remarkable claims this company makes...I would think SOMEONE would be
> >>talking about this stuff online.  But the only place talking about 
>Algone
> >>is
> >>www.algone.com.
> >>
> >>Personally, I want to believe...but I don't want to be the sucker buying
> >>fool's gold.
> >>
> >>-- jason
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
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> >
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